Black Adam as the face of the Shazam franchise

[Outside_85]

Someone made a point that making him too old is when you drain the fun out of it...peak optimism and peak whimsy is probably when Billy's younger, and I think that's part of it (a stronger contrast between Billy and Cap is not a bad thing). Billy being too much of an adult kinda muddies things a bit

It does. But what I think Billy should be is, well, innocent.
Now I dont know anything about the early Captain Marvel stuff, but I suspect it was nothing like how Johns rewrote it all as Billy being angsty and lonely fosterhomer. He may have come from a place like that, but back then it was a time when he could turn a corner an bump into a friendly tiger walking upright and dressed in tweed.
This is kinda why I compare him to Teen Titans, Billy almost should be like the cartoons in this regard. You have have serious moments (not gritty darkness), but remember to have an equal amount of fun.

The template for Black Adam overtaking the protagonist of his stories and becoming a big time character DC can push is Deathstroke. At a certain point Deathstroke got way bigger than the Titans and outgrew being another Batman villain. Potential is totally there for Black Adam to do the same.

Could also argue that Sinestro is the best template as well.

To be honest, I dont think Deathstroke outgrew the Titans at all, I think alot of DC writers simply realized that he was a great character you could do things with. Especially since Deathstroke broke off around that 'magical time' where everyone was getting into the extreme phase.

[daBronzeBomma]

So it's been over a year ...

And clearly Shazam is not quite dead and buried as I initially thought here. There is a new ongoing title on the way and of course, the new SHAZAM! Movie coming out next year with Zachary Levi as the Former Captain Marvel.

But, I still think Black Adam is the richer character to explore.

Then it hits me, like a bolt of lightning:

What if, when Billy Batson says the magic word, he transforms into Black Adam?

Billy and Teth are constantly in each other's head when not in their own bodies. Billy tempers Teth's ruthlessness, while Teth adds a little "wolf" to Billy.

It could be done in continuity, even just for an extended storyline or, if popular enough, the new status quo for a while. You could even give Teth a new Black, Red, & Gold costume that blends classic Fawcett cap with his own.

I suppose you'd need another rogue to become the new alpha physical villain to fight (beyond Sivana and Mr. Mind).

Captain Nazi.

Maybe change his name to something more marketable. Captain Alt-Right?

Black Adam vs Captain Nazi/Alt-Right in a modern setting would be so cool to see!

Or just try the whole thing out as as AU miniseries.

The idea still has merit.

[Frontier]

So it's been over a year ...

And clearly Shazam is not quite dead and buried as I initially thought here. There is a new ongoing title on the way and of course, the new SHAZAM! Movie coming out next year with Zachary Levi as the Former Captain Marvel.

But, I still think Black Adam is the richer character to explore.

Then it hits me, like a bolt of lightning:

What if, when Billy Batson says the magic word, he transforms into Black Adam?

Billy and Teth are constantly in each other's head when not in their own bodies. Billy tempers Teth's ruthlessness, while Teth adds a little "wolf" to Billy.

It could be done in continuity, even just for an extended storyline or, if popular enough, the new status quo for a while. You could even give Teth a new Black, Red, & Gold costume that blends classic Fawcett cap with his own.

I suppose you'd need another rogue to become the new alpha physical villain to fight (beyond Sivana and Mr. Mind).

Captain Nazi.

Maybe change his name to something more marketable. Captain Alt-Right?

Black Adam vs Captain Nazi/Alt-Right in a modern setting would be so cool to see!

Or just try the whole thing out as as AU miniseries.

The idea still has merit.

I mean, I think it would be an interesting way of going back to the adult form having a different personality, but it would really only work as an Elseworlds or one-off story in my opinion.

[daBronzeBomma]

I mean, I think it would be an interesting way of going back to the adult form having a different personality, but it would really only work as an Elseworlds or one-off story in my opinion.

I think, after witnessing how long the "Truth" Superman and "Superior" Spider-Man storylines ran, that this idea could run somewhere in between. Big Two Superhero Comics almost always revert to the status quo anyway.

[MajorHoy]

We wouldn't be having these silly discussions if DC went with "White William" or "Captain Shazam" for Billy's other identity . . .

[Gurz]

What a nice thread. I just bought my Mezco One:12 Black Adam figure 3 days ago. And now this thread poped up. I'm always ready to talk about Black Adam anyway. Yeah, he's way cooler than Captain Marvel. Another cool side of Black Adam is Teth Adam being an original Egyptian, from the race of pharohs. I loved him when he was a decent leader for Qndoku (not sure if this is how his country written) with Isis and Osiris beside him in 52 weeks. That was really so good, and that was what started my liking of the character. I like him as the king of his country, they should always keep him like that. They should give him back Isis and Osiris.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I don't mind if he gets used more often but I don't need him to be the face of the franchise or used instead of Billy.

[Ascended]

I'm not sure if I completely agree with the OP, but I can't argue his points either. Because I was thinking the same thing a while back, during that time when the Curse of Shazam had ruined Billy, Mary, and Freddy, and 52 (leaping off the work Johns did in JSA) had helped turn Adam into one of DC's most fascinating, tortured characters.

Adam really does have a lot going for him. He could easily be the face of the IP and I dont think you'd even really have to change the status quo to make it work, just write stories from his perspective. And there are damn few titles that showcase the villain, and I dont think there are any from the Big 2 at all which gives the focus of a property to the bad guy while putting the heroes in the "arch nemesis" role. It'd be interesting to see, and I think it could work incredibly well.

Really, I think the biggest/only draw Billy has over Adam is the wish fulfillment qualities of being a kid who turns into a magic Superman proxy. But that's a really huge stick to swing; the marketability of that is huge, and the reactions to the movie trailer show that it's utterly viable, perhaps in part because it runs against the natural cynicism that has infected the industry.

So.....why not do both?

Why not let Billy and his extended family do their thing in a Shazam title, but also push Black Adam in his own book? The IP loses nothing, and also becomes one of the few (only?) franchises to push both the hero and villain equally. Adam has a rich setting ripe to be expanded on with Khandaq, and Billy's setting is already well defined. The only hurdle will be the problem of having Billy's archnemesis star in his own book, which limits what you can do with Adam as a straight-up villain. But Billy and Adam's relationship has become far more complex and layered than just "He's my bad guy" so it's not an impossible hurdle to leap; you can still throw them at each other as long as the story doesn't conclude with one or the other being totally defeated and/or imprisoned. And putting one writer on both books would solve the problem anyway.

[SilverWarriorWolf]

What if, when Billy Batson says the magic word, he transforms into Black Adam?

Billy and Teth are constantly in each other's head when not in their own bodies. Billy tempers Teth's ruthlessness, while Teth adds a little "wolf" to Billy.

It could be done in continuity, even just for an extended storyline or, if popular enough, the new status quo for a while. You could even give Teth a new Black, Red, & Gold costume that blends classic Fawcett cap with his own.

I dunno. The concept of a grown man in a little boy’s body (and it’s not his kid-form) seems rather creepy to me, even when it’s Cap.

Captain Nazi.

Maybe change his name to something more marketable. Captain Alt-Right? .

As for Captain Nazi, I’d change his name to Arian. Short, to the point, and less likely to be dated.

[Frontier]

I'm not sure if I completely agree with the OP, but I can't argue his points either. Because I was thinking the same thing a while back, during that time when the Curse of Shazam had ruined Billy, Mary, and Freddy, and 52 (leaping off the work Johns did in JSA) had helped turn Adam into one of DC's most fascinating, tortured characters.

Adam really does have a lot going for him. He could easily be the face of the IP and I dont think you'd even really have to change the status quo to make it work, just write stories from his perspective. And there are damn few titles that showcase the villain, and I dont think there are any from the Big 2 at all which gives the focus of a property to the bad guy while putting the heroes in the "arch nemesis" role. It'd be interesting to see, and I think it could work incredibly well.

Really, I think the biggest/only draw Billy has over Adam is the wish fulfillment qualities of being a kid who turns into a magic Superman proxy. But that's a really huge stick to swing; the marketability of that is huge, and the reactions to the movie trailer show that it's utterly viable, perhaps in part because it runs against the natural cynicism that has infected the industry.

So.....why not do both?

Why not let Billy and his extended family do their thing in a Shazam title, but also push Black Adam in his own book? The IP loses nothing, and also becomes one of the few (only?) franchises to push both the hero and villain equally. Adam has a rich setting ripe to be expanded on with Khandaq, and Billy's setting is already well defined. The only hurdle will be the problem of having Billy's archnemesis star in his own book, which limits what you can do with Adam as a straight-up villain. But Billy and Adam's relationship has become far more complex and layered than just "He's my bad guy" so it's not an impossible hurdle to leap; you can still throw them at each other as long as the story doesn't conclude with one or the other being totally defeated and/or imprisoned. And putting one writer on both books would solve the problem anyway.

It's not unheard of for a hero's nemesis to get their own book.

It wasn't all that long ago that Sinestro had an ongoing of his own, and he's the Biggest Bad of the Green Lantern franchise (and the deutoragonist of John's run, more or less).

And I don't think Billy's hard-up for Rogues without Adam, with Sivana and Mr. Mind around. I think writers would probably be able to get by until they inevitably do a Billy vs. Adam story again.

[Ascended]

It's not unheard of for a hero's nemesis to get their own book.

It wasn't all that long ago that Sinestro had an ongoing of his own, and he's the Biggest Bad of the Green Lantern franchise (and the deutoragonist of John's run, more or less).

And I don't think Billy's hard-up for Rogues without Adam, with Sivana and Mr. Mind around. I think writers would probably be able to get by until they inevitably do a Billy vs. Adam story again.

Exactly. They could easily push both Billy and Adam in their own titles.

Billy has Sivana (who brings a whole rogues gallery of monsters with him), Mind, Nazi, Mr. Atom, the Seven Deadly Sins.....and didnt Blaze and Satanus start out as Shazam villains before ending up in Metropolis? And all that's before we get into Billy's D-list rogues (who could all be updated and reinvented). And he can always borrow some villains; who says he can't tussle with Hades, for example? A Billy title could run for ages without Adam and do just fine.

As for Adam, he's definitely capable of supporting a book if it's handled right (how did his mini sell, does anyone know?), and villains getting their own books isn't unusual at all. The only thing that would be unusual would be for the Shazam property to let both Billy and Adam lead it as "co-stars" of the franchise. That's something we haven't really seen before; a setting explored equally from both the hero and archnemesis' points of view. Even with Sinestro (as per your example) there were several Lantern books that diluted Sinestro's ability to steer the IP. With Shazam, you could have two very different books sharing the same basic mythos, each pulling the property along equally.

[Timothy Hunter]

Personally, I would divorce Black Adam from the Captain Marvel/Shazam sphere of DC Comics. Adam, (or at least the current iteration peddled by Geoff Johns's JSA, and the maxiseries 52) is too edgy to be associated with the Captain Marvel franchise.

[Frontier]

Exactly. They could easily push both Billy and Adam in their own titles.

Billy has Sivana (who brings a whole rogues gallery of monsters with him), Mind, Nazi, Mr. Atom, the Seven Deadly Sins.....and didnt Blaze and Satanus start out as Shazam villains before ending up in Metropolis? And all that's before we get into Billy's D-list rogues (who could all be updated and reinvented). And he can always borrow some villains; who says he can't tussle with Hades, for example? A Billy title could run for ages without Adam and do just fine.

As for Adam, he's definitely capable of supporting a book if it's handled right (how did his mini sell, does anyone know?), and villains getting their own books isn't unusual at all. The only thing that would be unusual would be for the Shazam property to let both Billy and Adam lead it as "co-stars" of the franchise. That's something we haven't really seen before; a setting explored equally from both the hero and archnemesis' points of view. Even with Sinestro (as per your example) there were several Lantern books that diluted Sinestro's ability to steer the IP. With Shazam, you could have two very different books sharing the same basic mythos, each pulling the property along equally.

I'm not sure I see it as a co-lead situation since I think that runs the risk of possibly devaluing Billy's role and what the franchise is supposed to stand for, but I think a Black Adam book could still work well on its own.

Even if there weren't several Lantern books I would not want to see a Sinestro book steering the IP again, past what one would expect from the main villain of a franchise. But that's a personal thing.