Does Marvel Not Have Enough Good Female Villains?

[Panic]

Selene, Hela, Moonstone, Morgan Le Fey... those are a few good ones not listed. Really though, it's a bit awkward having a muscular guy hitting a woman while being the hero.

[Michael Watkins]

Selene, Hela, Moonstone, Morgan Le Fey... those are a few good ones not listed. Really though, it's a bit awkward having a muscular guy hitting a woman while being the hero.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

That was the artists fault really...though yeah the only ones that can hit women are other women in comics, otherwise things can get messy...

[Tiamatty]

A lot of the problem is historical. Traditionally, heroes were men. And men hitting women wasn't acceptable. So that made it tougher to use female villains. Plus, I suspect a lot of the writers - also men - were simply uncomfortable writing women as villainous.

We're getting a greater willingness from creators to come up with female villains. Female creators, in particular, come up with them fairly regularly. Of course, those female creators don't get to work on major titles, so their villains don't get widespread awareness.

[Frontier]

Why am I not surprised ?

[Michael Watkins]

A lot of the problem is historical. Traditionally, heroes were men. And men hitting women wasn't acceptable. So that made it tougher to use female villains. Plus, I suspect a lot of the writers - also men - were simply uncomfortable writing women as villainous.

We're getting a greater willingness from creators to come up with female villains. Female creators, in particular, come up with them fairly regularly. Of course, those female creators don't get to work on major titles, so their villains don't get widespread awareness.

not every fight has to end with someone getting punched in the face. there are plenty of elderly villains. the concern should be the same for them, yeah?

[Michael Watkins]

Why am I not surprised ?

why not assume that it's a joke?

[Tiamatty]

not every fight has to end with someone getting punched in the face. there are plenty of elderly villains. the concern should be the same for them, yeah?

I agree, but classic superhero comics were all about the punching. The greater willingness of today's creators to find other resolutions is probably a part of why female villains are becoming a little less uncommon. Plus, mainstream culture has changed to be more accepting of warrior women, and more accepting of warrior women getting hit, because it's just a part of the reality of being a warrior. So female villains are more common now than they used to be.

They still seldom get to be the Big Bads, though. Mostly relegated to the smaller titles, or smaller roles in big titles.

[Crimz]

Female villains are usually regulated to the "femme fatale" role and are never the main villain for a male superhero. As others have said I get why, it's uncomfortable seeing a man hit a woman under any circumstance even if she is a villain. The only time it's not seen in a negatively is when the woman is either unattractive or overly masculine, which is problematic. It's a complicated situation.

[gurkle]

Claremont did have Iron Man quite rightly hit Rogue in her first appearance as a villain, but in that case Rogue was a) almost invulnerable b) drawn kind of butch (which shouldn't matter, but as Crimz says, that makes it easier to get away with).

I remember listening to a Batman: The Animated Series commentary where Batman drags Harley Quinn offscreen and there's the sound of a punch, and the creators of the episode are shocked at the sound effect: "He hit her!" He should have hit her, in the context of the scene, but even having a hero hit a stereotypically "feminine" villain offscreen is considered a shocking thing. It's a problem that makes it hard for a female villain to hit the big time unless she's a woman's nemesis.

Avengers Annual 010-026.jpg

[Mutant God]

Avengers - Superia, Femizons, Morgan Le Fay, Black Swan, Serpent Society (Viper, other female members), Moonstone, Toxie Doxie, Ruby Thursday

Thor - Amora, Hela

Captain America - Sin,

X-Men - Selene, Cassandra Nova, Lady Deathstrike, Mastermind Sisters, Goblin Queen

Spider-Man - Black Cat, Spider-Queen, Calypso

[JudicatorPrime]

Claremont did have Iron Man quite rightly hit Rogue in her first appearance as a villain, but in that case Rogue was a) almost invulnerable b) drawn kind of butch (which shouldn't matter, but as Crimz says, that makes it easier to get away with).

I remember listening to a Batman: The Animated Series commentary where Batman drags Harley Quinn offscreen and there's the sound of a punch, and the creators of the episode are shocked at the sound effect: "He hit her!" He should have hit her, in the context of the scene, but even having a hero hit a stereotypically "feminine" villain offscreen is considered a shocking thing. It's a problem that makes it hard for a female villain to hit the big time unless she's a woman's nemesis.

Avengers Annual 010-026.jpg

Oddly enough, Rogue was just a teenager at the time, if memory serves. Stark, a known womanizer, was perfectly in character for hitting her. Of course, in the next panel we see that Rogue felt the punch, but only barely. She handled Stark.

Getting back to the OP, there are a number of outstanding women villains. Even more, if Marvel writers stop converting them all into heroes. Make Emma Frost the villainous White Queen again for starters.

[ed2962]

Oddly enough, Rogue was just a teenager at the time, if memory serves. Stark, a known womanizer, was perfectly in character for hitting her. Of course, in the next panel we see that Rogue felt the punch, but only barely. She handled Stark.

Getting back to the OP, there are a number of outstanding women villains. Even more, if Marvel writers stop converting them all into heroes. Make Emma Frost the villainous White Queen again for starters.

I going to say something like this. The good villains...male and female...get popular, so Marvel wants to turn them into anti-heroes.

[Silvermoth]

I think women supervillains don't get promoted as often as their male counterparts but there's a lot of potential there

[Frontier]

I going to say something like this. The good villains...male and female...get popular, so Marvel wants to turn them into anti-heroes.

DC is guilty of this too (if not moreso).

The Gotham City Sirens have been steadily moving towards being Anti-Heroes more and more over the years, especially Catwoman and Harley Quinn.

The recent revamp of Cheetah by Greg Rucka is probably the most sympathetic she's ever been.

Half the cast of DC Super Hero Girls is villains being portrayed as heroes because many popular DC women also just happen to be villains (Harley, Ivy, Catwoman, Killer Frost, etc.)

Heck, this week there was a negative fan response to Poison Ivy being depicted as killing a bunch of thugs in her way as if that was all that out-of-character for her.