Sean Murphy's Batman: White Knight

[Caivu]

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[TooFlyToFail]

Aside from sounding like terrible fanfiction, the message of the story seems to be "these superhero comics you love are stupid and irrational, and I'm going to explain to you why!"

How? Most comic book stories sound like crazy fanfiction.

Also, I'm guessing you're not a fan of the Hickmans, Ellises, and Brubakers of the world, given the latter part of your post. It's a different take on the genre; not about telling you that what you love sucks.

[Badou]

I almost pressed "back", myself, but I'm interested in a potentially elitist take on Batman.

I probably shouldn't judge too harshly. His art will at least make it worth it regardless of the story.

While there are members of BLM who are racist, they are not the majority by any means, and I don't believe the core message itself has been twisted to the point that the organization and movement should be dismissed. I stand by it firmly.

That is fine. I wouldn't disparage something someone truly believes in, but it isn't something I want to personally support. Though I imagine the story won't just be BLM stuff too, so I shouldn't be too critical.

[TooFlyToFail]

Sorry my sister went on my account.

Something similar to that effect happened in Robert Kirkman's Invincible.

She wanted him, bad, and she was much, much stronger.

Yup.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm pretty sure they could find creators who care about the JSA and Shazam if they tried.

All of which means nothing if Sean Murphy wants to write a Batman/Joker story.

This could be really good annd I will keep tabs on it. But it does kind of bring to kind that "Does Bruce check his white male privelage" thread, so I dunno...

[Atlanta96]

How? Most comic book stories sound like crazy fanfiction.

Also, I'm guessing you're not a fan of the Hickmans, Ellises, and Brubakers of the world, given the latter part of your post. It's a different take on the genre; not about telling you that what you love sucks.

No, most stories do not sound like terrible fanfiction. A story about a heroic Joker talking about BLM and social justice and using it to defeat an evil Batman, while also pompously criticizing escapist superhero fiction, sounds like bad Tumblr fan fiction.

[millernumber1]

Aside from sounding like terrible fanfiction, the message of the story seems to be "these superhero comics you love are stupid and irrational, and I'm going to explain to you why!"

It's the condescension that puts my teeth on edge. I think part of the problem is that for me, Batman is a symbol of hope - in my view, a spiritual one, but I think as a psychological figure of hope as many comic writers tend to use him, he's an inspiration. I see the value of flipping things on their head for fun storytelling, but bringing it so close to something so topical (and so quickly dated) loses the real power of Batman - to give those stuck in the darkest parts of their world, to those stuck in their own minds, in situations where it seems like there's no hope - there's a hand in a glove reaching down for you, and a hint of a smile beneath a goofy Bat cowl.

Also, bonus, here's a nice funny songified video where one guy makes Murphy's point, and the other articulates something much closer to my view. The real thing is that I think Batman functions in a mythological way - he's not "realistic," he's a figure that uses fantasy to tell us things about ourselves. If you look at him realistically, yes, it's ridiculous that a guy decides to use billions to punch criminals in the face one at a time instead of founding orphanages and running for mayor and such (though I would point out that Batman does those things too).

[dan12456]

Aside from sounding like terrible fanfiction, the message of the story seems to be "these superhero comics you love are stupid and irrational, and I'm going to explain to you why!"

How? Seems like a huge reach no one else is making. The idea that the hero could be part of the problem has been a superhero trope for decades. The idea that without Batman many of the Gotham villains might not exist has also existed for decades. These aren't new ideas and they've never been used to discredit other comics in the past.

[Atlanta96]

How? Seems like a huge reach no one else is making. The idea that the hero could be part of the problem has been a superhero trope for decades. The idea that without Batman many of the Gotham villains might not exist has also existed for decades. These aren't new ideas and they've never been used to discredit other comics in the past.

As millernumber1 already explained, the problem is the condescension. There is a time and place for superhero deconstruction, but care must be taken to not ridicule and insult the genre and it's fans while doing so. Murphy's work seems a teensy bit on the condescending side.

[Timothy Hunter]

I have no respect for the "leaders" of BLM and the whole movement I think is horribly misguided. The base message is fine to support, black people want to be treated fairly, but how the whole movement has been hijacked by disguising, racist, idiots that twist the message to fit their own agenda and push false rhetoric churns my stomach.

Not, to be political myself, and not that I'm right wing by any means, but I wish many of these mainstream comic writers would stop inserting topical left leaning politics into their stories, because all of their commentaries always tread the same ground, and the messages they want to get across when they get political are rarely provocative and are usually no more complex as "Trump is a Nazi" or "Sexism is bad."

[Atlanta96]

Not, to be political myself, and not that I'm right wing by any means, but I wish many of these mainstream comic writers would stop inserting topical left leaning politics into their stories, because all of their commentaries always tread the same ground, and the messages they want to get across when they get political are rarely provocative and are usually no more complex as "Trump is a Nazi" or "Sexism is bad."

Never forget.
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And that's not nearly as bad as some of the cringeworthy stuff Marvel has printed. I don't trust anyone in comics right now to do political stories without screwing it up.

[Assam]

And that's not nearly as bad as some of the cringeworthy stuff Marvel has printed. I don't trust anyone in comics right now to do political stories without screwing it up.

Not even a fan of Ms. Marvel?

[Atlanta96]

Not even a fan of Ms. Marvel?

Indifferent. I have nothing against Kamala.

[Timothy Hunter]

Never forget.
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And that's not nearly as bad as some of the cringeworthy stuff Marvel has printed. I don't trust anyone in comics right now to do political stories without screwing it up.

A part of me has died inside when I read that panel.

Oh, and in my opinion, (and I hate to potentially derail the thread), I would actually consider that panel worse than the majority of some of the Marvel scenes you're referring too, because I don't think there is particularly anything wrong with Ms. Marvel or Spiderwoman or Squirrel Girl saying the word "Mansplaning" except maybe the word itself, because I don't think anyone at Marvel saying the word mansplanning would go against their character, but with Wonder Woman that's the contrary, because Wonder Woman is supposed to be very regal, it's sort of like Sherlock Holmes or Dracula saying the word mansplaning.

Also where comic is that panel from?

Well anyway, I'm going to read this new Batman story, I might no purchase it, but maybe I'll borrow it from a library. While I am turned off by the political elements, I do see the potential in this story and I've read other work from the creator, Sean Gordon Murphy, and he's a competent writer, he's fortunately one of the few good writer artists in the industry.

[SiegePerilous02]

How? Seems like a huge reach no one else is making. The idea that the hero could be part of the problem has been a superhero trope for decades. The idea that without Batman many of the Gotham villains might not exist has also existed for decades. These aren't new ideas and they've never been used to discredit other comics in the past.

Any story that runs with this one is pretty bad, unless it's to point out how stupid it is.