Sean Murphy's Batman: White Knight

[geomon]

DC fans: "Here's a list of characters and teams we'd like to see more of..."

DC: "Duly noted! Here's a story about a heroic Joker defeating Batman with social justice, and explaining why the superhero comics you love are stupid!"

DC fans: "Or you could give us new JSA, Young Justice, Shazam..."

DC: "Enjoy a Don Draper inspired Joker bringing political correctness to Gotham and saving it from oppressor Batman!"

The disconnect grows.

Thank you, I didn't have to say it.

[willtupper]

I'm excited about this.

The idea that the Joker might... I mean, if this isn't some huge "bait-and-switch," where the Joker turns out to be an actual monster at the end... but the idea that there may be a character that tries to help out Gotham through useful and productive means (rather than punch-punch-punch your way to Justice!), well...

I think it could be really interesting. And I'm definitely "down to clown" with it .

[millernumber1]

I'm excited about this.

The idea that the Joker might... I mean, if this isn't some huge "bait-and-switch," where the Joker turns out to be an actual monster at the end... but the idea that there may be a character that tries to help out Gotham through useful and productive means (rather than punch-punch-punch your way to Justice!), well...

I think it could be really interesting. And I'm definitely "down to clown" with it .

People seem to keep forgetting that Batman also tries to help Gotham with donations, fundraisers, etc. And that Gotham is designed from the beginning as a city where the structures of society are fundamentally broken, which is why Batman is still necessary.

[darkseidpwns]

What evidence would you demand that someone 'has the chops' to write this story?

That's what I meant.

Did you think DKR was awful? Because that certainly had a lot of politics.

He barely has writing experience
He admits to having Batman knowledge that covers only BTAS and the films.

When TDKR was published it wasn't cool or hip to jump on the liberal bandwagon and preach.

[Manda-Panda]

This is none canon right? Because I don't need to see HydraCap with Batman

[Atlanta96]

This is none canon right? Because I don't need to see HydraCap with Batman

Yes, it's very non-canon.

[millernumber1]

He barely has writing experience
He admits to having Batman knowledge that covers only BTAS and the films.

When TDKR was published it wasn't cool or hip to jump on the liberal bandwagon and preach.

I agree about the first points, but Alan Moore's popularity seems to indicate the contrary of your last point.

[byrd156]

Can't say I'm interested in this at all. Partially because the concept doesn't sound too appealing, and partially because I couldn't care less about the Joker.

Also, anybody remember the LAST disastrous non-canon book where one of Batman's rogues was cast as a hero, and Batman himself as a villain?

Attachment 51326

Such a so bad it's good story, after this story I never wanted to see another one like it. I know this has the potential to be good, but I highly doubt it.

[willtupper]

Quite the contrary. I've not forgotten at all.

In fact, I'd probably say that maybe my all-time favorite Batman story is "Batman 24/7," by Devin Grayson.

In it, Bruce uses his wealth & resources in some very clever & cool ways in order to help make Gotham a better place.

I also don't know if I agree with your suggestion that Gotham is "designed from the beginning as a city where the structures of society are fundamentally broken." Because if that's true, then couldn't the case also be made for New York City? Or for any large city, for that matter?

People seem to keep forgetting that Batman also tries to help Gotham with donations, fundraisers, etc. And that Gotham is designed from the beginning as a city where the structures of society are fundamentally broken, which is why Batman is still necessary.

[millernumber1]

Quite the contrary. I've not forgotten at all.

In fact, I'd probably say that maybe my all-time favorite Batman story is "Batman 24/7," by Devin Grayson.

In it, Bruce uses his wealth & resources in some very clever & cool ways in order to help make Gotham a better place.

I also don't know if I agree with your suggestion that Gotham is "designed from the beginning as a city where the structures of society are fundamentally broken." Because if that's true, then couldn't the case also be made for New York City? Or for any large city, for that matter?

Well, when I say that, I'm talking on two levels. 1) If Gotham is a city where things actually can work, then Batman is crazy. I do not accept that Batman is crazy - he's broken, but he's a hero. If you construct the world in such a way that he's not a hero, you're not writing a Batman story, you're writing Crazy Rat-Man (or Steve ). 2) Gotham is also deeply symbolic - of the alienation and violence of city life, the anxieties of living in such a morass of people and vice, of the soul/mind that we have to conquer for virtue against the representations of our own vice/unhealthiness/imbalances. On both levels, the struggle is eternal, and thus, I don't think a Gotham where the structures of society actually work is acceptable.

[HsssH]

I hope that I'll be pleasantly surprised, but at the same time I'm afraid that this will devolve into strawman arguments and preaching that one side will obviously love while another won't.

[TooFlyToFail]

As millernumber1 already explained, the problem is the condescension. There is a time and place for superhero deconstruction, but care must be taken to not ridicule and insult the genre and it's fans while doing so. Murphy's work seems a teensy bit on the condescending side.

How is this doing what you said?

[TooFlyToFail]

This was my most anticipated book and now I'm not sure.

First of all I'm in agreement with some of the others here, this sounds like a shitty modern day Marvel story with all the Black Lives matter, wage gap and other non sense Murphy spewed about the content. Who cares? who wants to read this crap in a Batman book? its an instant turn off. I dont want Trump Batman or Joker, I dont want talk about White privilege.

Secondly Murphy doesn't have the proven writing chops for a project like this.

Thirdly Murphy has almost zero knowledge about Batman and his world. His primary sources by his own admission are TAS and the films, he neither knows nor much cares about comic Batman.

Also he thinks he's going to do a deconstruction, well there's Alan Moore deconstruction and Zack Snyder deconstruction and this here feels more like the latter. For reasons I mentioned above.

Finally Joker, seriously enough of Joker already. The overexposure is bad as it is but now writers are giving away concepts that could have potentially worked with other villains and giving them to Joker. This could have easily worked with Anarky or Two-Face.

Not impressed Sean.

This doesn't feel anything like Zack deconstruction. We don't even know how far this will go. I think, by calling it White Knight, and having said white knight be the Joker, Murphy might be a little more self-aware than we think.

[TooFlyToFail]

People seem to keep forgetting that Batman also tries to help Gotham with donations, fundraisers, etc. And that Gotham is designed from the beginning as a city where the structures of society are fundamentally broken, which is why Batman is still necessary.

Which is hardly ever given focus.

[millernumber1]

How is this doing what you said?

Murphy's soundbytes about Batman and Joker don't show any appreciation for why people like them beyond "Batman appeals to fascists." That's incredibly puerile and condescending.

Which is hardly ever given focus.

Because it's much less interesting as a story than punching criminals in the face one at a time. But it's constantly happening.