Deconstructing Spider-Man:Homecoming Movie - Good vs Bad

[Vixx]

For me it topped Rami, I went back to rewatch all three Rami movies and they are ok at best if thought of as period pieces like the X-Men movies

I'm finding it tough to compare to Rami - other than overall enjoyment

Those were standalone movies, with a different agenda - (the 3rd was bacon wrapped poo lol)

#2 - IMO - was in a class all of its own, topped by Logan , on arguable par with a couple of the Xmen movies and maybe Superman 1/2 - depending on grading criteria.

Thought Homecoming dovetailed into what exists well, didn't break anything (to bad) and was very entertaining; but think it did more for the MCU than the Spider-verse; the small movie description was apt

[Magneto]

I'm finding it tough to compare to Rami - other than overall enjoyment

Those were standalone movies, with a different agenda - (the 3rd was bacon wrapped poo lol)

#2 - IMO - was in a class all of its own, topped by Logan , on arguable par with a couple of the Xmen movies and maybe Superman 1/2 - depending on grading criteria.

Thought Homecoming dovetailed into what exists well, didn't break anything (to bad) and was very entertaining; but think it did more for the MCU than the Spider-verse; the small movie description was apt

I think CA: Winter Soldier is pretty good and should be named with Logan and SM2. IMO, Winter Soldier is the best movie Marvel produced.

[LASERlips]

Just guessing - but think folks were expecting a white redhead with a shitty childhood that goes from being a bit of a brat to an adult is the bedrock on what to build... Oh and actually name her Mary Jane.

It's an an iconic charector - closest parallel is Lois Lane. Would be like recasting Breakfast at Tiffanys - you aren't just casting the story, or the charector as written; your replacing Audrey Hepburn.

This MJ was a good charector - but was a bit off, like crushing on Pete and kind of sulking around the edges. More like that weird girl from the Breakfast Club meets Jo from facts of life lol. She lacks the gravitas - With everyone so young, MJ would have blown them off the screen by being more worldly than your average science geek at a high school.

If all students at that school (guys, girls, etc) aren't taking notice and having impure thoughts - not necessarily from a sexpot vibe - you've missed the mark.

MJ was the fun, interesting one.. Sexy was there, but didn't reach out and choke you with its garter belt ... Gwen was the one you wanted to Norman by default.


If the fish are still swimming when she walks in ...

Even Lois Lane has had different interpretations and--GASP--different hair colors!

This MJ is more worldly than her peers--or did you miss the embassy line?

And it's kind of weird to discuss the necessity of including or highlighting the "impure thoughts" of teenagers regarding another teenager in a family-oriented superhero movie. Just saying.

Anyway, this MJ is a teenager in high school. Mary Jane from the comics didn't come into the picture until she was in college. If you're missing the partying, the modelling, maybe just wait. If you're upset about her skin and her hair, her race...better do some self-reflection.

[Dangerous]

I've seen the film twice now and intend to see it at least once more in theaters.

Further observations...

On the positive side I really like the tone they went for, they perfectly captured the vibe of your Friendly Neighborhood underoos, and I love that first montage in Queens with the Ramones playing over (who of course were from Queens). The tone of the film reminded me a lot of Kick-Ass and I thought that was the perfect vibe. Obviously I don't want every entry in the series to feel exactly the same tho.

But on the downside... I don't like that Spidey's suit a) has an inbuilt AI and b) was made by Tony Stark.
These aspects really take away from the whole spirit of Spider-Man to me. You know, he's a DIY low tech guy, he's not Iron Man. I don't mind the mask lenses having a HUD and him having all kinds of kick ass web settings, that feels like a natural evolution, but the AI and all the high tech stuff like thermal detection, why are they there>?

It's basically a replacement for the Spider-Sense. But he does not need this stuff if you let him have Spider-Sense.... I think part of the AI aspect was done so they could make an excuse to have PP talk to himself all the time, but I like the fact that he talks to himself constantly and not an AI in the classic portrayal, because it adds to his quirkiness which we don't get in this film.

The perfect end would have been him making his own AI-less suit, for the next films, which May then walks in on.
Y'know, what was the point of him taking down the Vulture without any Stark tech, if he then goes back to it?

[Ceebiro]

I've seen the film twice now and intend to see it at least once more in theaters.

Further observations...

But on the downside... I don't like that Spidey's suit a) has an inbuilt AI and b) was made by Tony Stark.
These aspects really take away from the whole spirit of Spider-Man to me. You know, he's a DIY low tech guy, he's not Iron Man. I don't mind the mask lenses having a HUD and him having all kinds of kick ass web settings, that feels like a natural evolution, but the AI and all the high tech stuff like thermal detection, why are they there>?

They're their because Stark. That's his modus operandi. He consistently operates as if more is better. Notice how Peter tells Karen to pick something really simple for him. No need for the taser or lethal mode. I would not be surprised if he strips the suit down a bit going forward because they're not vital to his being Spider-man.

[Ceebiro]

What!? I liked the conflict with Vulture and Spidey on that cloaked plane. Gave it an interesting environment to fight in. I thought the monument rescue scene was simple for sure, but did a good job at creating tension because they introduced fighting against the clock and stuff going bad to cut down time. Kinda like how Speed always kept the movie going by stating they could never stop or go below 50 mph.

Glad to know I'm not the only person who liked the action here. Admittedly, it's not flashy and doesn't try to capture epic moments amidst the action. I can't think of a single action scene that slowed down for a "splash page", but I think it worked for the smaller scale story they were selling for Pete. His hero moment isn't in beating the villain. It's in saving people, something that Pete had to learn over the course of the film. Even when he was trying to break Vulture's operation earlier in the film, he was always trying to preserve all life, asking the thugs if they were okay and things like that. I can't think of the last superhero on screen who did that. Probably...Spider-man?

[Magneto]

I've seen the film twice now and intend to see it at least once more in theaters.

Further observations...

On the positive side I really like the tone they went for, they perfectly captured the vibe of your Friendly Neighborhood underoos, and I love that first montage in Queens with the Ramones playing over (who of course were from Queens). The tone of the film reminded me a lot of Kick-Ass and I thought that was the perfect vibe. Obviously I don't want every entry in the series to feel exactly the same tho.

But on the downside... I don't like that Spidey's suit a) has an inbuilt AI and b) was made by Tony Stark.
These aspects really take away from the whole spirit of Spider-Man to me. You know, he's a DIY low tech guy, he's not Iron Man. I don't mind the mask lenses having a HUD and him having all kinds of kick ass web settings, that feels like a natural evolution, but the AI and all the high tech stuff like thermal detection, why are they there>?

It's basically a replacement for the Spider-Sense. But he does not need this stuff if you let him have Spider-Sense.... I think part of the AI aspect was done so they could make an excuse to have PP talk to himself all the time, but I like the fact that he talks to himself constantly and not an AI in the classic portrayal, because it adds to his quirkiness which we don't get in this film.

The perfect end would have been him making his own AI-less suit, for the next films, which May then walks in on.
Y'know, what was the point of him taking down the Vulture without any Stark tech, if he then goes back to it?

100% agree with what you said.

[madeforTV]

With the exception of the comment about Ned (I liked Ned), the below captures my sentiments very well.

Also, there was what someone said about Spidey Sense. That's arguably Spider-Man's most powerful superpower -- the ability to anticipate the movements of your adversary and pro-act rather than react.

The only moment where I felt this (grossly depowered version of) Spider-Man embodied what I think of as THE Spider-Man of Marvel canon was when he found the strength to lift the ruble.

I guess Disney is trying to protect Iron Man as the lead in their version of the Marvel Universe. In the version I've always known, Spidey was the franchise player. Not here. Not by a long shot.

The big takeaway was he's little more than a street-level thug buster without Stark. The Vulture kicked his butt easily.

Something also felt off about the overall quality in terms of effects and action scenes. It came off as something much less than a summer blockbuster.

Keaton was excellent.

The Bad: I personally, did not like the tone that they went with. For some Disney/Marvel movies the very very light tone and Jokes Galore works, LIke Guardians of the Galaxy or Ant Man, but does every movie they make have to be like an episode of Whose Line is it Anyway. And I know that some people will say that's who spider-man is but that is not necessarily true. It really depends on the version of Spider-Man. This movie felt like a cartoon version of Ultimate Spider-Man thrown onto the big screen. And while that may appeal to a younger audience, it may not appeal to the older audience like myself. I do not particular care for Ultimate spider-Man, but it seems like it is becoming the default version of Spidey.

I did not really see the need for Ned, what was his purpose besides being more comic relief in a movie that is filled to the brim with comic relief. I know someone might say that well he did save Peter's life at the end which leads me to another point. Where is Spidey's Spider-sense. It seems like this is another movie that has ignored the spider-sense. In Raimi's movies it was at least alluded to. I didn't see it once in Spider-Man Homecoming.

Next point, Since when does Spider-Man worship the ground Tony Stark walks on. That was one of the most frustrating aspects in Civil War and it is clearly evident in this movie. Of my knowledge of Spidey comic books I don't recall Spider-Man worshiping or seeking out Tony Stark as a mentor figure. Spider-Man has always been a ground level character if he were to seek out some advice for anything it would be Daredevil or Luke Cage....hell even wolverine, Captain America, but Stark??? Nah son. I wanted to tear my hair out when Peter said he wanted to be like Stark.

I would have liked to see Spider-Man actually take down the Vulture instead of having the Vulture take down the Vulture. I mean really I don't even recall Spider-Man in this movie throwing a punch, or a kick or really battling the Vulture, like in the previous movies, SM1: Spidey had a brutal fight with the Green Goblin SM2: Spider-Man threw down with Ock 3: Sandman Amazing Spider-Man 1- He fought the Lizard. I kept screaming in my mind Fight. Fight. but he didn't really fight him. He just did some flips.

Final point for now would be the suit. While some of the gadgets were cool and it made for some funny or interesting moments, I kept thinking to myself is all of that really necessary. Spider-Man has only really needed his web-shooters. I've always liked the aspect of him being some guy who made his costume in his room, which is kinda why I got excited when he put on his original costume (Which kinda looked like Scarlet Spider costume). Part of Spider-Man's character was that all he really needed in a fight was his will to never give up. And in this movie it seemed like he relied too much on the suit. The suit is what made him spider-Man. Even when Stark gave it back at the end, wouldn't it have been better to see him stash that costume away and start making his own.

I know I'm probably in the minority. It seems pretty much everyone has fallen in love with this movie, and while I want to love it, I can't. At best it is good not great.

Spider-Man 2 is still the best Spidey movie to me, and that's just my opinion.

[RD!]

I agree with you entirely.

Hell, if people are still hooked on MJ being a model, that can still happen too. Zendaya herself is already in the world of fashion. This take on MJ could get into modelling or fashion, and use her position and fame to continue busting people's balls on social media, further demonstrating her intellect.

Thank you.

I think the successful model part was a small part of her character, and actually took away from the interesting person she was. I think it's ok, especially for an MJ that is meant to be 14 or 15, to not be desired by all the other characters

[UnknownEntity]

Thank you.

I think the successful model part was a small part of her character, and actually took away from the interesting person she was. I think it's ok, especially for an MJ that is meant to be 14 or 15, to not be desired by all the other characters

Haven't you read the Mary Jane solo series, the Mary Jane Homecoming series and the Spider Man Loves Mary Jane series. Flash, Harry and Spider Man and half the school were fawning over her LOL

[Vixx]

I think CA: Winter Soldier is pretty good and should be named with Logan and SM2. IMO, Winter Soldier is the best movie Marvel produced.

Now I have to see it - been passing that one by... Never been that into Cap

Thanks for recommend

[Bukdiah]

Now I have to see it - been passing that one by... Never been that into Cap

Thanks for recommend

Been a while since I've seen that movie, but it was pretty damn solid. You should also give Brubaker's Cap America a try if you're curious.

[Vixx]

Even Lois Lane has had different interpretations and--GASP--different hair colors!

This MJ is more worldly than her peers--or did you miss the embassy line?

And it's kind of weird to discuss the necessity of including or highlighting the "impure thoughts" of teenagers regarding another teenager in a family-oriented superhero movie. Just saying.

Anyway, this MJ is a teenager in high school. Mary Jane from the comics didn't come into the picture until she was in college. If you're missing the partying, the modelling, maybe just wait. If you're upset about her skin and her hair, her race...better do some self-reflection.

Not upset about her race - I'm pointing out that the charector in the books is a red headed, white woman than had a shitty childhood and decades of stories that have given her iconic status. I went into the movie cold - and did not peg that actress as MJ. Also didn't think the blonde was Betty. Thought Liz being biracial was brilliant.

Can't tell if you are being genuine or calling me out - but No need to self reflect ( although I have a bit of experience in this particular area ..)

Without repeating my post - I have no problems with the actress, or that she wasn't white -

Hoping now that the reveal is done, hope the next flick gives her more to work with - specifically presence.

Impure thoughts ... Being raised Catholic, everything is an impure thought lol but that doesn't have to be sexual - again presence ( but to be fair - did you miss the FMK - avengers edition?)

[UnknownEntity]

Now I have to see it - been passing that one by... Never been that into Cap

Thanks for recommend

WHAT!? Dude I concur. Winter Soldier is a surprise hit of the highest magnitude. A truly excellent thrilling film with solid action, story and performances.

[Magneto]

Now I have to see it - been passing that one by... Never been that into Cap

Thanks for recommend

I'm not a Captain America fan, but this movie was very very good. It doesn't rely on MCU exposition and it's his own movie. It's easily the best story used in a Marvel Studio movie.

Go watch it !