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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Default reasons for becoming a hero

    So, what makes a good story about a former villain turning hero? Sometimes the reasons seem weird or trivial, but people are weird, so it's something that should differ by individual.

    Let's look at a few examples, these are a mix of things from the comics and Avengers Alliance(because AA has a LOT of former villains as heroes):

    Avalanche: In AA, he joined the Avengers because he felt the Brotherhood had gone off the deep end and had betrayed the cause they claimed to fight for. Then felt he had nowhere left to go.

    Constrictor: In AA, he joined because he wanted to make the world a better place. He had more money than he knew what to do with from being a villain, and had no more reason to be a villain.

    Destroyer: Yes, that massive self-animated walking armor from the first Thor movie. In AA, Loki and Amora enchant it to serve SHIELD instead of destroying things while rampaging.

    Doctor Doom: He'll do whatever he think he has to in order to accomplish his goals. In AA, his over arching goal was to solve the Incursion problem and eventually he decides that helping SHIELD was the best method.

    Elektra: Um... She's a hero approximately whenever she feels like it.

    Enchantress: In AA, Thor's been hanging out with SHIELD and Amora misses him.... so she decided to join SHIELD in order to have more time with him...

    Fixer: In AA, Fixer got bored of being a criminal. so he decided to try being a hero instead. Also he apparently thinks MODOK is an idiot, not stupid, just dull witted.

    Juggernaut: He's had several reasons on various occasions. In AA, he simply decided he was tired of losing to heroes.

    Kang: He saw the end of the universe, and saw that he had to help you in order to stop it.

    Loki: well.... he does whatever he wants. Sometimes he wants to help heroes.

    Magneto: classic case of an anti-villain. He has good motives, but bad ideas on how to achieve his goals. He simply chose to use better methods.

    Moonstone: She's kinda amoral, but doesn't want to think of herself as evil. She wants to think that she's just another person and that many people would have done similar things. But that means she will also do good things if she thinks it will help her.

    Omega Sentinel: Well, Karima Shapandar never wanted to be a villain. She got turned into a cyborg by Bastion, and that was the only reason for her being a villain at all.

    Sabretooth: Him as a hero is usually because he's been forced to do so through some threat of death or something.

    Sandman: He's the sort of guy who just doesn't really know what to do with himself. He was a small-time thug before he got powers and didn't really know what else to do. Eventually he simply decided he didn't want to be a villain.

    Satana: she wanted a place to hide after other demons tried to kill her. She was like, "ok fine, I'll help you if I can live here for now."

    Taskmaster: He works for whoever pays him best. But, in AA, he found he couldn't count on getting paid as a villain since the other villains often got taken out before they could pay him what they owed him. So he decided to be a hero... for the paycheck.

  2. #2
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Yeah, Sabertooth's MAA reason for turning good was that he got Suicide Squadded. Bomb in his noggin!

    Correction re: Constrictor. His money didn't come from villainy, but from winning a lawsuit against Hercules!

  3. #3

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    I like the thread. but I'm not entirely sure that I understand the thread.

    [QUOTE=marhawkman;2941235]So, what makes a good story about a former villain turning hero? Sometimes the reasons seem weird or trivial, but people are weird, so it's something that should differ by individual.

    I'd say that, personally, I prefer a "villain" who attempts heroism out of boredom. I also like villains who commit acts of accidental heroism simply because they have standards/lines that they won't cross. that's why I like Taskmaster. he's not opposed to killing someone. but you're not going to see him shoot up a hospital or even threaten a loved one to get to someone. he considers himself to be a professional. he has to be paid to take someone out. and it's usually someone who has given consent to be murdered; by choosing to be a costumed vigilante or villain. Spencer wrote a fun encounter between Taskmaster and Ant-Man; at the start of his series. Taskmaster has Ant-Man dead to rights. given how often the latter has gotten in the way, Taskmaster would have been within his rights to kill him. but he wasn't being paid to kill him; just distract. he also tipped off Ant-Man to the danger that his daughter was in. the guy's all class. I just prefer this kind of villain (reformed or not) to thrill killers like Carnage.

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Avalanche: In AA, he joined the Avengers because he felt the Brotherhood had gone off the deep end and had betrayed the cause they claimed to fight for. Then felt he had nowhere left to go.
    what's 'AA?' from my perspective, Dominic has never been a villain. he was a mutant farmer who was convinced by another mutant to be a freedom fighter. he's spent most of his career as a government agent; even after Mystique deserted him. plus, he had kind of a gentle/sentimental nature. I'm not sure what transpired between he and the mother of his child, though. that story hasn't been told. but his daughter was a real piece of work. I'd love to know more about that female Avalanche that we saw in Uncanny Avengers, as well. she wasn't named.

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Constrictor: In AA, he joined because he wanted to make the world a better place. He had more money than he knew what to do with from being a villain, and had no more reason to be a villain.
    Frank's an odd case. his characterization is all over the place. is it still canon that he's a mentally ill former SHIELD agent? they used a similar backstory for Taskmaster. I'm not sure that I like either of those retcons. but I guess it does make sense that Tony would have been a SHIELD agent prior to becoming Taskmaster. he has trained plenty of govt operatives. I'm just not sure that it fits Frank's character. I can never tell how old he is supposed to be, either. he has an adult daughter. his best stuff was in the Avengers Iniative book, imo. he's in the same mercenary category as guys like Taskmaster and Deadpool. 'hero' and 'villain' labels don't really apply.

  4. #4
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    AA = the now defunct Facebook game Marvel Avengers Alliance.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I like the thread. but I'm not entirely sure that I understand the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    So, what makes a good story about a former villain turning hero? Sometimes the reasons seem weird or trivial, but people are weird, so it's something that should differ by individual.
    It's about discussing things that make a compelling reason to change from being a villain to being a hero.

    In AA, Avalanche was a bit more terrorist, but only a little. In that continuity he hadn't left the Brotherhood until he joined SHIELD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    AA = the now defunct Facebook game Marvel Avengers Alliance.
    It was amazingly awesome. Also it had a LOT of characters that went from villain to hero.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Let's look at a few examples, these are a mix of things from the comics and Avengers Alliance(because AA has a LOT of former villains as heroes):
    What's that? A comicbook series or a game..

    Constrictor: In AA, he joined because he wanted to make the world a better place. He had more money than he knew what to do with from being a villain, and had no more reason to be a villain.
    LOL! Sound reasoning!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    AA = the now defunct Facebook game Marvel Avengers Alliance.
    Oh wait, I see...never mind.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Often, it's not that that people are bad, it's just that they don't care or have another problems.

    Spider-man started to fight baddies once his uncle was murdered and not because he was bad before and became good after.
    He got more conscious of his responsabilities as a human being connected to other human beings, more sensitive to unjustice.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Honestly, I am not picky. I just like redemption stories period. I never care how the journey starts, so long as it's a good one with an ending that lands.

    I think about Ransik & Nadira's Face-Turns in Power Rangers Time Force and Wild Force. It was in fact rushed on Nadira's end, but I enjoyed her seeing past what she was taught & blindly accepted, and her father's redemption starting when he turned himself in after almost killing Nadira (the one thing he loved). But he was a good villain too.

    Far as Marvel goes, everyone knows Sabretooth was one of my fav. character. Back when he was a villain written with some layers. Sadly that was 17 years ago. lol In recent years his only worth as a character & good stories came as a result of AXIS. I appreciate Remender getting that started but don't care his his writing Sabretooth because he's too big on shipping him with Mystique. So Bunn, Brisson, and Duggan gave him the better characterization and stories where he could be his own character, have some different sides, and it had nothing to do with being an accessory for Wolverine or Mystique. Sadly every writer in the X-books after Bunn dropped the bridge on him.

    His face-turn was a result of a spell. But so was Angel from Buffy, and people are fine with that. He was a whoring scoundrel as a human. Turned evil through vampirism. Then got a soul & conscious from a Gypsy. That made him a different man from his previous human self and his evil self. But he didn't chose any of the Heel or Face turns. They happened beyond his control and he ran with them however he saw fit. lol So I never saw Sabretooth's AXIS flip as a bad thing. It brought his goodness to the forefront, which kept his more violent traits in check (ignoring Pak's half-assed writing).

    So I looked forward to his journey trying to atone for his past while still being totally flawed given he's been a killer without help for around 144 years. There was plenty of confining, insulting, clobbering, and torturing him. Rinse & repeat step by step in HOX. As if that kind of torture is gonna make him more stable should they wanna use him again. Never mind they got Omega Red running around killing mutant children since they can be revived. Anyway, case in point. Sabretooth has never been helped or accepted and he worsened over the years left to his own devices. The few people who did accept him, mainly love interests & flings, did get to see better sides of him. Unlike Wolverine, he doesn't get passes for anything. Let alone everything like Logan does. After all, him killing strangers & teammates is ok. But not just Wolverine now. We got X-Men on Krakoa willing to accommodate Mystique, Apocalypse, Sinister, and Omega Red to name a few. But the ONE mutant they can't do anything with or for happened to be Sabretooth of all people? Anyway. Finishing up.

    I am down for Heel-Face turns. I always enjoy when they happen and there's never been a villain I thought was too evil to get them. So long as they're getting them. Especially nowadays where villains disposable as used tissue. I loved Inverted Sabretooth. Sad that his only good arc for 17 years was a filler story while waiting for Rosenberg & Hickman to trash him.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 03-29-2020 at 11:02 AM.

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