Why are Marvel's Superheroines Less Popular overall than Dc's?

[JeanGreyForever]

Well that is right. Marvel should of took their time with Carol Danvers and developed her much more. I know she came out in 1967, but remember from 1992-1999 she has not been in any stories to be quite frank. She was placed on the back burner since then. I'd say 1978-1992 was her shinning point. 1978-1982 was her time as Ms. Marvel and then from 1984-1992 she went around as Binary. Then afterwards, she was back to being Carol.

I didn't know how Chris Claremont felt about the Carol Danvers character, but he felt that she might need just be a supporting character from what he was thinking. Same went with Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), but that didn't stop Jim Shooter to reveal his Girl Gang of Colorado with Julia Carpenter, Titania, and Volcana. Now Volcana is forgettable because no one hardly remembers her at all. But from 1984-2000 we had the second Spider-Woman for awhile. During that, she did feature along with Jessica Drew in the third Spider-Woman series which Mattie Franklin was the headliner. Jessica and Mattie headline in their own comics. Why not Julia Carpenter? Strange thing, right?

As far as other females, Marvel needs to really put emphasis on their villains, but it seems the Fantastic Four and X-Men have better villains along with Spider-Man who has a numerous amount of A-List villains.

By the 2000's, I can see why Marvel was saving their other characters by bringing over Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men villains was because Iron Man, Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel), Captain America, etc do not have great or memorable villains only if they are on the team.

Sadly that's what I see in Marvel.

I think Claremont liked Carol and Jessica a lot considering he was writing both of their solo books for a while and both books, while not well regarded anymore, were considered to get better under his pen. Unfortunately both books got cancelled (Carol's especially always felt too early) which is why Claremont tried to reintegrate both in UXM. Tbh, I'm not sure why he had Rogue absorb Carol's powers...I'm not sure if that was editorially mandated because no one wanted to use Carol anymore and maybe Claremont though that he could redefine her as Binary as a Phoenix substitute. But then, he kept her in space, so I'm not sure about that either. Jessica he did use a little bit especially in his Wolverine series, but she was depowered then.

[JeanGreyForever]

DC market them better than Marvel does.

Agreed. I think Marvel has the more unique superheroines (and even the few distaff counterparts imo are more unique than DC's. Carol has long been more popular than Captain Marvel, She-Hulk had few interactions with Hulk in the beginning and unlike her cousin, was known for team books like Avengers and the FF, not to mention she was the original Marvel hero to break the 4th wall way before Deadpool which gave her a unique shtick, while Spider-Woman had no connection with Spider-Man whatever and he was only brought into her original solo near the end when sales were struggling.)

[Iron Maiden]

Also, compare the way they merchandise female heroes between the two companies. DC has action figures, dolls, animated tv shows, games and many other things heavily featuring their female heroes.

While Marvel couldn't even make a Black Widow action figure or doll... What's stopping them from making a Captain Marvel cartoon? Or a all-female team cartoon? Cartoons really help bolster popularity. And the less said about the games the better especially after the MVC:I fiasco.

A lot of everything that is negative about Marvel, both comics and movies, can be traced back to that guy.
Cudos to Disney to actually doing this and removing his influence from at least the movies.

We have a bingo here. Marvel won't make a public statement about it but Ike Perlmutter is most likely the one to blame. There's a reason why he got removed from having any say in the movies or Disney wouldn't have done it.

[portland_breakers101]

I think Claremont liked Carol and Jessica a lot considering he was writing both of their solo books for a while and both books, while not well regarded anymore, were considered to get better under his pen. Unfortunately both books got cancelled (Carol's especially always felt too early) which is why Claremont tried to reintegrate both in UXM. Tbh, I'm not sure why he had Rogue absorb Carol's powers...I'm not sure if that was editorially mandated because no one wanted to use Carol anymore and maybe Claremont though that he could redefine her as Binary as a Phoenix substitute. But then, he kept her in space, so I'm not sure about that either. Jessica he did use a little bit especially in his Wolverine series, but she was depowered then.

Well, this is what one guy from the DC Comics thread said about the same question of this topic. And here it comes

Martin Goodman's publishing empire started out with pulp magazines, often with women featured on the covers in peril and various states of undress. Goodman's Timely then got into the booming comic book business and at first their primary big sellers were the male super-heroes--e.g. Human Torch, Sub-Mariner, Angel, Captain America.

However, in 1942, they began publishing MISS FURY, which reprinted Tarpe Mill's comic strip. After that Timely introduced Miss America (Madeleine Joyce) in MARVEL MYSTERY COMICS in 1943, before spinning her off into her own title in the following year. At the same time, Timely published TESSIE THE TYPIST, who was also featured in GAY COMICS. With its second issue, MISS AMERICA took on a magazine format and introduced another feature, Patsy Walker. In addition to eventually taking over that mag, PATSY WALKER won her own title and would have a long life with Marvel.

At that point there was a female population explosion: THE BLONDE PHANTOM, RUSTY, MILLIE THE MODEL, NELLIE THE NURSE, JEANIE COMICS, JUNIOR MISS, LANA, MARGIE COMICS, CINDY COMICS in additon to PATSY WALKER and MISS AMERICA and more to come--the post-war era was populated mainly by leading women. At the same time, SUB-MARINER COMICS prominently featured Namora, while VENUS and SUN GIRL were added to the super-female ranks.

Martin Goodman’s comics followed the trends. So when teen humour or super-heroes were out, then there were western and romance comics. Yet Patsy Walker and Millie the Model--with their gang of friends--stayed in publication through the 1950s and even into the 1960s, when the company now called Atlas shifted toward fantasy and science fiction.

Meanwhile, Goodman published a line of paperbacks that followed the themes of the old pulps. And he launched a line of men’s magazines: FOR MEN ONLY, BACHELOR, STAG and SWANK--these included sexy comic strips like the Adventures of Pussycat. As well, there was a line of humour digest magazines that included girly cartoons.

Talents from the comic book side of the business were also contributing to these stroke books and lad mags. And needless to say, women were prominently featured in all of these.

Patsy Walker was co-created by writer Otto Binder and artist Ruth Atkinson, while Atkinson created Millie the Model all on her own. Ruth was one of the few women working in comics back in the 1940s. So I think it’s quite a feather in Marvel’s cap that two of their longest running female characters had Ruth Atkinson to thank for their existence.

Millie and Patsy continued publication as the Marvel Age progressed and they even crossed over into a few of the super-hero comics.

MILLIE THE MODEL ended her title’s run in 1973, but Millie has continued to pop up in the Marvel Universe. PATSY WALKER ended her eponymous title in 1965, while the title she shared with her friend, PATSY AND HEDY, ended in 1967. But Patsy was not done, as Steve Englehart revived her character as the super-hero Hellcat in 1972 and she’s been active ever since.

Now, yes Carol should of been retooled from 1999-2010 when she came back and they did a good job trying to insert her back into Marvel's Universe. But then that was still a problem because the 2000's was all about Elektra, Black Widow, Jessica Jones (maybe), Scarlet Witch going bananas, and X-23's arrival (maybe Echo as well since she was featured most likely).

Then when you see Ultimates, Carol was just a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent while Mar-Vell was Captain Marvel. You know Noh-Varr was going to get that push when his solo came out in 2000. Jessica Drew had a solo out in 2000, but in 2001 they decided that maybe the should give it to a new character name Jessica Jones who is another flying brick just like Carol was back from 1978-1982. Then Sentry was their 2000-2001 Marvel's Superman. So with Noh-Varr, Jessica Jones, Sentry, X-Static being the new characters of Marvel's 2000's, it seemed like a Marvel Comics talent search just to see which character would be noteworthy for a long run and looks like four books did sort of well and people wanted to see them again.

Noh-Varr is less utilize. He was in the running to be the new Captain Marvel. He had the potential and I thought he was going to go places and such. He had the well written charisma and seemed that the creators from 2000-2002 liked him. While Genis-Vell was going to be written out, they were planning, "Noh-Varr is the one, he could even star in his own movie and be friends to the likes of the Inhumans, etc." Noh-Varr was a missed opportunity in my eyes.

No one knows who Jessica Jones is. The fathers or older men who remembers Daredevil, Iron Fist, and Power Man are like, "Who is this girl?" She is on Netflix and you can tell. The men knew who The Purple Man was and asked why hasn't Daredevil shown up to kick his ass.

Sentry was hard to write and they just gave up on him. So killing him off end the suffering of Sentry. The aspect of him fighting an enemy from within is psyche was long drawn out and got very old to the point where they had to figure out how to rid of him.

X-Static was just offbeat. They all were planned to actually be fully canon within the X-Men Universe and yet that was halted because they didn't know how the X-Men fans would take people like Dead Girl, U-Go Girl, etc. X-Men fans would of welcomed X-Static, especially the Deadpool fans. Oh man, they would of welcomed X-Static and it would of been interesting how Deadpool would of taken the team and.... I leave that off for now.

As that man's quote says, Patsy Walker and Millie the Model came out way before in the same publishing, but at the time when there were super-heroines, there was Miss America, Sun Girl, Venus. Why isn't Venus utilized? Wonder about that for awhile.

Yes, Miss America seemed to be replaced by that of America Chavez which to me was trying to bring in a LGBT character to push ahead. Somewhat doesn't work due to how others view it or some will.

Sun Girl is working out. Joe Q was actually a little smart enough to dig back into Marvel's history as Timely and Atlas comics to bring in some rebirths of those Golden Age. Hell, since Fox has X-Men why not bring back a different version of Angel and Jack Frost (Ice Man's similarities came from Jack Frost).

If you look at this from a standpoint, Marvel has to relax their way on how to utilize women more. The Fantastic Four and X-Men females are just embedded on a team and will never go as far because there is no way to write them.

[ZuLuLu]

Welp, DC did have the benefit of being able to see the backlash Marvel got over this.

Didn't DC suffer their own backlash because of come of the comments that were made after the cancellation of Young Justice ?

[Carabas]

Didn't DC suffer their own backlash because of come of the comments that were made after the cancellation of Young Justice ?

That they did.

For those who don't know, it was basically canceled because too many girls watched it, and everybody knows girls don't buy action figures, and since all these shows basically episodic toy ads...

[chief12d]

That they did.

For those who don't know, it was basically canceled because too many girls watched it, and everybody knows girls don't buy action figures, and since all these shows basically episodic toy ads...

That's really unfortunate. Young Justice was beautifully animated and had an amazing plot. At least they're bringing it back for season 3 on some streaming service...

[RLAAMJR.]

Marvel has more popular male superheroes that's why Marvel prioritizes them more than their ladies just like how DC prioritizes Superman and Batman.

[Crimz]

On the whole team characters thing: I think that not even trying to elevate the female characters who are on teams is a disservice to those characters as well as a missed opportunity.

There are fans of these characters and there is potential with them, to write them off as "can only work on a team" is a waste. It would take a focused push, clear direction and it won't be easy but that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile to at least try. Many males on teams have at least had attempts at making them more than just a member of the team.

[skyvolt2000]

Didn't DC suffer their own backlash because of come of the comments that were made after the cancellation of Young Justice ?

Yes they did but there are folks who still blame Static for the show getting axed. Since it got yanked as soon as he showed up and the comics got axed. Dc had no trouble letting that excuse stay out there.

It took the show runners to confirm it was too many female viewers and toy sales were the issue.

Never mind many of the toys were poorly made and the ones everybody wanted (deluxe figures) were hard to find. And if they had waited to toss out what would have been the first Static, Icon & Rocket figures-those alone would have bought up sales. Along with what would have been first Cassie figure-if it was made.

But using that excuse is nothing new.

We have a bingo here. Marvel won't make a public statement about it but Ike Perlmutter is most likely the one to blame. There's a reason why he got removed from having any say in the movies or Disney wouldn't have done it.

Yet certain fans have no issue attacking books that have nothing to do with his behavior.

[ed2962]

Apart from Marvel not having a Wonder Woman (DC doesn't have another Wonder Woman, either; she's unique and so is her creator), Marvel didn't do many solo pushes for any characters during its 1980s peak. They were heavily focused on team books. So they have a ton of Martian Manhunter type of characters, who are mostly only known as part of a team.

So Wolverine, the ultimate breakout character, did not receive his own solo ongoing comic until he'd been in X-Men for over a dozen years. None of the other X-Men, male or female, got their own comics. And it takes time to spin off a character and make them a solo star and give them their own supporting cast and mythology. Characters like Catwoman and Harley Quinn and Supergirl are famous, but they wouldn't be famous if they'd been given one miniseries or one ongoing and then went right back to being supporting characters forever. Trying to make the Marvel team-book heroines into stars now isn't impossible, but it's certainly much harder than it would have been if they'd started in the '80s.

As to why Marvel didn't work harder on this... I recall being told by someone who worked at Marvel that the feeling at the company in the '80s was that most solo books weren't good sales risks compared to teams. I don't know how reliable that is. But Marvel in the '70s through the '90s had very tight continuity, and that may have been a factor. DC's characters are mostly older and from a time when it didn't matter so much if Batman did one thing in his own comic and another thing in a team or team-up comic. But when Wolverine got his limited series in the '80s, he actually had to leave the X-Men for a while so he could go to Japan. Vision and Scarlet Witch got two limited series in the '80s and both times they left the Avengers so they would be exclusive to their own book. If you don't want a solo book to contradict the team book, then the only way to give (say) Storm her own comic would have been to take her out of X-Men for a while, thereby probably hurting the X-Men comic for the sake of a book that probably wouldn't sell.

I don't think continuity conflicts between solo characters and teams was the reason they didn't develop more female solos in the 80's. IM, Cap, and Thor had any problems. Spider man had three starring ongoing titles.

[ed2962]

On the whole team characters thing: I think that not even trying to elevate the female characters who are on teams is a disservice to those characters as well as a missed opportunity.

There are fans if these characters and there is potential with them, to write them off as "can only work on a team" is a waste. It would take a focused push, clear direction and it won't be easy but that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile to at least try. Many males on teams have at least had attempts at making them more than just a member of the team.

Good point. I'd also throw out there that characters Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Babs Gordon were created to be support cast but they were able to build solo series around them.

Carol Danvers, Logan, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Electra...all support cast, but they worked ( sales not with standing) in solos because effort was put into making their stories work.

[dragonmp93]

That they did.

For those who don't know, it was basically canceled because too many girls watched it, and everybody knows girls don't buy action figures, and since all these shows basically episodic toy ads...

As a proof of how Marvel treats its female characters; that's what the competition does and still is ahead in that aspect.

[Troian]

Marvel has more popular superheroines than DC.

I know this is late.. But what has Marvel done with these, more popular heroes?

DC has a sucessful live action movie, one is on a live action tv show, several are gonna star in their own live action movies and don't even get me started on DC Superhero Girls and all the other toys and extra comics, animated shows they get. And they do this while still pushing Batman and Superman at the top.

You could make the argument that the X Ladies are known but Marvel has done a pretty shitty job advertising them. And before we get on YJ, yes they both have their highs and lows but YJ wasn't really made with the intent of capturing females and now thanks to DC SHG they do.

DC has done a much better job at pushing their females out to mainstream all while keeping Batman on top. This has allowed, movie audiences aside (which is likely gonna change with all the new movies) more public awareness.

[Confuzzled]

That they did.

For those who don't know, it was basically canceled because too many girls watched it, and everybody knows girls don't buy action figures, and since all these shows basically episodic toy ads...

As a proof of how Marvel treats its female characters; that's what the competition does and still is ahead in that aspect.

DC didn't cancel it lol. Cartoon Network was the one that did it for the "too many girls watching it and toys not selling" reason. Hence DC's decision to include YJ3 in their own streaming service.

CN is terrible. They are treating Justice League Action horribly too.

Kudos for DC for actually staying committed to their female characters and trying to appeal to little girls despite all of that. No way Marvel would have brought out something like DC Superhero Girls if Disney XD or whoever had cancelled one of their shows for the same reason.