Why are Marvel's Superheroines Less Popular overall than Dc's?

[InformationGeek]

I know others will be interested to see the numbers. I might make a list for number of appearances in video games too later.

Top 25 (as of the moment) female character from Marvel and Dc with most number of appearances according to Comic Vine ( links above_

1. Storm - 7,778 appearances ( First appearance, May 1975 )
2. Jean Grey - 5,992 appearances ( First appearance, September 1963 )
3. Wonder Woman - 5,914 appearances ( First appearance, 1941 )
4. Rogue - 5,255 appearances ( First appearance, 1981 )
5. Invisible Woman - 5,105 appearances ( First appearance, 1961 )
6. Kitty Pryde - 4,932 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1980 )
7. Emma Frost - 4,841 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1980 )
8. Lois Lane - 4,515 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1938 )
9. Psylocke - 3,588 appearances ( First appearance, December, 1976 )
10. Scarlet Witch - 3,549 appearances ( First appearance, March, 1964)
11. Carol Danvers - 3,183 appearances ( First appearance, March, 1968)
12. Wasp - 2,973 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1963 )
13. Black Widow - 2,954 appearances ( First appearance, April, 1964 )
14. Mary Jane Watson - 2,910 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1965 )
15. Barbara Gordon - 2,523 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1967 )
16.She-Hulk - 2,424 appearances ( First appearance, February, 1980 )
17. Black Canary - 2,365 appearances ( First appearance, August, 1947 )
18. Supergirl - 2,336 appearances ( First appearance, May, 1959 )
19. Mystique - 2,295 appearances ( First appearance, April )
20. Magik - 2,254 appearances ( First appearance, May 1975 )
21. Aunt May - 2,245 appearances ( First appearance, August , 1962 )
22. Jubilee - 2,201 appearances ( First appearance, May, 1989 )
23. Catwoman - 2,039 appearances ( First appearance, April, 1940 )
24. Hawkgirl - 1,424 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1940 )
25. Starfire - 1,403 appearances ( First appearance, October, 1980 )


Ororo Munroe aka Storm takes the top spot by a large margin even if there are a lot of female characters who first appeared in comics before her.

Only 8 ladies from DC (in blue font) are in the top 25.

well, you also have to deduct the translated into other languages comics, like Ryhmä-X and its 249 issues for Finnish audiences.

[El_Gato]

I doubt it. it's not like Meera action figures are going to fly off the shelves. she's not joining the Justice League. so she doesn't really count; just as I doubt that Black Panther is going to elevate Shuri's brand.

DC/Mattel just unveiled two new Justice League barbies for Wonder Woman and Mera

I expect Mera to get a lot of attention next year! She's debuting in JL this year, has Aquaman next year and will likely join the Super Hero Girls line-up (Jessica Cruz and Zatanna are already confirmed to be joining).

[portland_breakers101]

I know others will be interested to see the numbers. I might make a list for number of appearances in video games too later.

Top 25 (as of the moment) female character from Marvel and Dc with most number of appearances according to Comic Vine ( links above_

1. Storm - 7,778 appearances ( First appearance, May 1975 )
2. Jean Grey - 5,992 appearances ( First appearance, September 1963 )
3. Wonder Woman - 5,914 appearances ( First appearance, 1941 )
4. Rogue - 5,255 appearances ( First appearance, 1981 )
5. Invisible Woman - 5,105 appearances ( First appearance, 1961 )
6. Kitty Pryde - 4,932 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1980 )
7. Emma Frost - 4,841 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1980 )
8. Lois Lane - 4,515 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1938 )
9. Psylocke - 3,588 appearances ( First appearance, December, 1976 )
10. Scarlet Witch - 3,549 appearances ( First appearance, March, 1964)
11. Carol Danvers - 3,183 appearances ( First appearance, March, 1968)
12. Wasp - 2,973 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1963 )
13. Black Widow - 2,954 appearances ( First appearance, April, 1964 )
14. Mary Jane Watson - 2,910 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1965 )
15. Barbara Gordon - 2,523 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1967 )
16.She-Hulk - 2,424 appearances ( First appearance, February, 1980 )
17. Black Canary - 2,365 appearances ( First appearance, August, 1947 )
18. Supergirl - 2,336 appearances ( First appearance, May, 1959 )
19. Mystique - 2,295 appearances ( First appearance, April )
20. Magik - 2,254 appearances ( First appearance, May 1975 )
21. Aunt May - 2,245 appearances ( First appearance, August , 1962 )
22. Jubilee - 2,201 appearances ( First appearance, May, 1989 )
23. Catwoman - 2,039 appearances ( First appearance, April, 1940 )
24. Hawkgirl - 1,424 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1940 )
25. Starfire - 1,403 appearances ( First appearance, October, 1980 )


Ororo Munroe aka Storm takes the top spot by a large margin even if there are a lot of female characters who first appeared in comics before her.

Only 8 ladies from DC (in blue font) are in the top 25.

Solo issue comparisons work better because a solo title develops said character, gives them a rogues gallery, and a support cast. Plus most of Marvel's women are embedded in team books. So since Storm doesn't have a her unique Rogue's Gallery, that means you can't really do much to get her a solo. So her days are past as a top female led. I signed up just to come here and say this as well.

Marvel's problem is that they do not know how to build their ladies up. They had a chance with Scarlet Witch and that failed. They had a chance with Tigra, but that just didn't go to far. They tried to make Carol Danvers into someone and her new code name today just screams Captain Marvel DC. Then Spider-Woman is all over the place now a days. They had a chance with Black Widow multiple times as well as Elektra. I think Marvel needs to grab into their other stuff they bought back in 1996 and check out their IP from Ultraverse called Mantra and try to bring her into the Marvel Universe instead of just letting a few of those Ultraverse characters sit. I think Barr might be pissed if they did that, but who knows.

[darewithpeace]

because fox has the best superheroines and marvel has meh superheroines and thats the one they promoove

[skyvolt2000]

that hasn't been my experience with the non comic book reading public. I wore an Ant-Man costume for Halloween last year. only one guy knew who I was and he was wearing a Winter Soldier costume. most people guessed Spider-Man. and I got at least one guess of "someone from Halo." now Ant-Man was the main character of his movie. you really think that Meera is going to be part of the social consciousness? people are hesitant to embrace female heroes, as is. Wonder Woman's success is an outlier (and a byproduct of her being an original creation like superman). I'd love it for all of these characters to be embraced as A-List. I don't see it happening.

How many of those folks saw those films?

Not everybody is going to know who is who especially if you don't have kids or into cartoons or comics.

Or you have a franchise that has pretty much excluded folks. Or films that don't use certain folks as leads.

Which is why you see certain reactions like to Black Panther, Static Shock, WW, Ms Marvel and so on.

WW is the first female lead movie (among the big two) since Supergirl. Here is some perspective- between that time 6 different US Presidents, No Fox network, Lebron James was not born & The Cosby Show just started.

Black Panther (among the big two) will be the first black lead film in 13 years for Marvel (Blade 3). Aside from Hancock-who else was there in that span? Beyond some no name stuff that mace11 might post. Because no one heard of them.

Now Meera is not going to have the huge impact WW has beacuse she is a costar in that film.

Now Shiri and maybe the midnight Angels are different. Other than Storm, Fake Catwoman & Amanda Waller-how many black females have we seen among the big two? Who were heroes? Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie in Thor-same thing. You make stuff with them especially TOYS-they are going to sell out. Because of it's rare nature.

Top 25 (as of the moment) female character from Marvel and Dc with most number of appearances according to Comic Vine ( links above_

1. Storm - 7,778 appearances ( First appearance, May 1975 )
2. Jean Grey - 5,992 appearances ( First appearance, September 1963 )
3. Wonder Woman - 5,914 appearances ( First appearance, 1941 )
4. Rogue - 5,255 appearances ( First appearance, 1981 )
5. Invisible Woman - 5,105 appearances ( First appearance, 1961 )
6. Kitty Pryde - 4,932 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1980 )
7. Emma Frost - 4,841 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1980 )
8. Lois Lane - 4,515 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1938 )
9. Psylocke - 3,588 appearances ( First appearance, December, 1976 )
10. Scarlet Witch - 3,549 appearances ( First appearance, March, 1964)
11. Carol Danvers - 3,183 appearances ( First appearance, March, 1968)
12. Wasp - 2,973 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1963 )
13. Black Widow - 2,954 appearances ( First appearance, April, 1964 )
14. Mary Jane Watson - 2,910 appearances ( First appearance, June , 1965 )
15. Barbara Gordon - 2,523 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1967 )
16.She-Hulk - 2,424 appearances ( First appearance, February, 1980 )
17. Black Canary - 2,365 appearances ( First appearance, August, 1947 )
18. Supergirl - 2,336 appearances ( First appearance, May, 1959 )
19. Mystique - 2,295 appearances ( First appearance, April )
20. Magik - 2,254 appearances ( First appearance, May 1975 )
21. Aunt May - 2,245 appearances ( First appearance, August , 1962 )
22. Jubilee - 2,201 appearances ( First appearance, May, 1989 )
23. Catwoman - 2,039 appearances ( First appearance, April, 1940 )
24. Hawkgirl - 1,424 appearances ( First appearance, January, 1940 )
25. Starfire - 1,403 appearances ( First appearance, October, 1980 )

Question and it's not to troll anyone.

How many of those appearance are of MAJOR significance?

Where is the THIS IS WHAT MADE ME A FAN MOMENT for all of them? Or that MOMENT where she proved she mattered? Like Supergirl dying in Crisis. Sue in FF 283-286 becoming Invisible Woman instead of girl (FF 283 was my first ff book).

I can toss you in a bunch of books and have you do nothing-see New 52 Cyborg or Duke Thomas in the main Batman book. But where is that big moment at for these ladies?

[Agent Z]

How many of those folks saw those films?

Not everybody is going to know who is who especially if you don't have kids or into cartoons or comics.

Or you have a franchise that has pretty much excluded folks. Or films that don't use certain folks as leads.

Which is why you see certain reactions like to Black Panther, Static Shock, WW, Ms Marvel and so on.

WW is the first female lead movie (among the big two) since Supergirl. Here is some perspective- between that time 6 different US Presidents, No Fox network, Lebron James was not born & The Cosby Show just started.

Black Panther (among the big two) will be the first black lead film in 13 years for Marvel (Blade 3). Aside from Hancock-who else was there in that span? Beyond some no name stuff that mace11 might post. Because no one heard of them.

Now Meera is not going to have the huge impact WW has beacuse she is a costar in that film.

Now Shiri and maybe the midnight Angels are different. Other than Storm, Fake Catwoman & Amanda Waller-how many black females have we seen among the big two? Who were heroes? Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie in Thor-same thing. You make stuff with them especially TOYS-they are going to sell out. Because of it's rare nature.




Question and it's not to troll anyone.

How many of those appearance are of MAJOR significance?

Where is the THIS IS WHAT MADE ME A FAN MOMENT for all of them? Or that MOMENT where she proved she mattered? Like Supergirl dying in Crisis. Sue in FF 283-286 becoming Invisible Woman instead of girl (FF 283 was my first ff book).

I can toss you in a bunch of books and have you do nothing-see New 52 Cyborg or Duke Thomas in the main Batman book. But where is that big moment at for these ladies?

We had Elektra and Catwoman before Wonder Woman

[JeanGreyForever]

DC/Mattel just unveiled two new Justice League barbies for Wonder Woman and Mera

I expect Mera to get a lot of attention next year! She's debuting in JL this year, has Aquaman next year and will likely join the Super Hero Girls line-up (Jessica Cruz and Zatanna are already confirmed to be joining).

Not really a DC fan but two of my fav heroines in doll form. Annoying that Marvel hasn't created any dolls for their heroines except for the recent Disney Store Black Widow (and Captain America) one.

[Tiamatty]

They would probably pass on Lauren Faust and Rebecca Sugar for Craig Kyle and Christopher Yost since they already have really strong ties to their animation department, or Joe Casey and Joe Kelly and crew.

I said Faust or Sugar (or someone like them) because the idea would be to make a show that's created with a female audience in mind. So it just makes sense to get a talented woman to develop it, rather than guys who, well-intentioned as they are, will still be held back by not being girls. Like, a guy couldn't have created Powerpuff Girls. A guy could've created something fairly similar, but it wouldn't have been the same. And if Marvel really wanted to do a cartoon that would tap into a female audience, it would make more sense to get a woman to develop it.

I dont know, but thanks to the internet, and given that we are talking about the Marvel Universe, when someone talks about magical girls, i think of this:

highfive (2).jpg

[Akiraking]

I said Faust or Sugar (or someone like them) because the idea would be to make a show that's created with a female audience in mind. So it just makes sense to get a talented woman to develop it, rather than guys who, well-intentioned as they are, will still be held back by not being girls. Like, a guy couldn't have created Powerpuff Girls. A guy could've created something fairly similar, but it wouldn't have been the same. And if Marvel really wanted to do a cartoon that would tap into a female audience, it would make more sense to get a woman to develop it.

I agree to an extent that it would be good to get the people designing shows for young girls to make a female marvel show but your example that Power Puff girls could not have been made by a man is wrong. Craig McCracken created Power Puff girls and he is a man.

[whiterabbit]

I said Faust or Sugar (or someone like them) because the idea would be to make a show that's created with a female audience in mind. So it just makes sense to get a talented woman to develop it, rather than guys who, well-intentioned as they are, will still be held back by not being girls. Like, a guy couldn't have created Powerpuff Girls. A guy could've created something fairly similar, but it wouldn't have been the same. And if Marvel really wanted to do a cartoon that would tap into a female audience, it would make more sense to get a woman to develop it.


highfive (2).jpg

Yeah, with respect, I strongly disagree. Just because someone lacks a quality to what they're developing does not mean they cannot comprehend the difficulties or issues involved. Most of our female characters, characters wth color, or social issues we've experienced over the years through our stories, were actually made by white men in their 30's and 40's or 50's. Power Pack was made by two middle-aged women, but their ability to comprehend the social and enviromental issues surrounding how children react and and deal with issues was beyond correct and accurate. The Runaways was about teenagers with each member carrying a different premise with a different ethnic background and even mostly contained females as a group, but Brian K Vaughn really created something that clicked and worked, despite being a young man.

Advocating for new diversity or equility is not a bad thing, but favoring a particular person over another BECAUSE they have a quality like gender that clicks with the fictional character is not fair or right. Because then we're saying no to men because they're not women. If Powerpuff Girls can be made by a man, if the amazing villain Apocalypse can be made and written by a woman, then gender or whatever isn't a factor in what can be good or bad. I mean, how many people in wheelchairs wrote Professor X and Oracle?

[Tiamatty]

Closest person in that regard is Mary Jane Watson.

Who isn't a hero. She's a civilian supporting character.

I know others will be interested to see the numbers. I might make a list for number of appearances in video games too later.

The thing is, number of appearances in comics doesn't necessarily have any bearing on a character's actual popularity. Scarlet Witch may have more comic appearances than Batgirl, but is she more popular than Batgirl? I would argue no. That Batgirl has a significantly greater pop culture footprint. She was in the '60s Batman show, which remains very well-known. She was in the '90s Batman cartoon, which is pretty widely recognized as one of the best cartoons of the '90s. She's long been a fairly popular choice for Halloween costumes. People know who Batgirl is, and have known for a long, long time. It's only the last couple years that people have heard about the Scarlet Witch.

Number of appearances doesn't speak to the impact of those appearances.

[Tiamatty]

I agree to an extent that it would be good to get the people designing shows for young girls to make a female marvel show but your example that Power Puff girls could not have been made by a man is wrong. Craig McCracken created Power Puff girls and he is a man.

Huh, I could have sworn Faust developed Power Puff Girls. But "just" an animator. Whoopes. Well, change my example to Friendship Is Magic, then.

Anyway, my overall point is this: If Marvel wanted to have their own version of Super Hero Girls, their best bet would be to likewise get women to develop it. But, of course, Marvel doesn't want their own version of Super Hero Girls. It's a market they don't give a shit about. So, instead, they do cartoons that are dominated by straight white male characters. Because, while the comics division is trying to diversify, the other branches of Marvel really, really don't care about diversity, beyond tokenism.

[El_Gato]

Huh, I could have sworn Faust developed Power Puff Girls. But "just" an animator. Whoopes. Well, change my example to Friendship Is Magic, then.

Anyway, my overall point is this: If Marvel wanted to have their own version of Super Hero Girls, their best bet would be to likewise get women to develop it. But, of course, Marvel doesn't want their own version of Super Hero Girls. It's a market they don't give a shit about. So, instead, they do cartoons that are dominated by straight white male characters. Because, while the comics division is trying to diversify, the other branches of Marvel really, really don't care about diversity, beyond tokenism.

http://heroichollywood.com/lauren-fa...er-hero-girls/

Well DC just recently scooped up Lauren Faust for their new Superhero Girls series. It debuts next year on CN with a rumored theatrical release next year to kick it off.

I wonder if Marvel would ever want to produce its own verison of SuperHero Girls (Marvel Divas?)...

[RLAAMJR.]

How many of those folks saw those films?

Not everybody is going to know who is who especially if you don't have kids or into cartoons or comics.

Or you have a franchise that has pretty much excluded folks. Or films that don't use certain folks as leads.

Which is why you see certain reactions like to Black Panther, Static Shock, WW, Ms Marvel and so on.

WW is the first female lead movie (among the big two) since Supergirl. Here is some perspective- between that time 6 different US Presidents, No Fox network, Lebron James was not born & The Cosby Show just started.

Black Panther (among the big two) will be the first black lead film in 13 years for Marvel (Blade 3). Aside from Hancock-who else was there in that span? Beyond some no name stuff that mace11 might post. Because no one heard of them.

Now Meera is not going to have the huge impact WW has beacuse she is a costar in that film.

Now Shiri and maybe the midnight Angels are different. Other than Storm, Fake Catwoman & Amanda Waller-how many black females have we seen among the big two? Who were heroes? Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie in Thor-same thing. You make stuff with them especially TOYS-they are going to sell out. Because of it's rare nature.




Question and it's not to troll anyone.

How many of those appearance are of MAJOR significance?

Where is the THIS IS WHAT MADE ME A FAN MOMENT for all of them? Or that MOMENT where she proved she mattered? Like Supergirl dying in Crisis. Sue in FF 283-286 becoming Invisible Woman instead of girl (FF 283 was my first ff book).

I can toss you in a bunch of books and have you do nothing-see New 52 Cyborg or Duke Thomas in the main Batman book. But where is that big moment at for these ladies?

There are significances on teambooks and events which are far more memorable than stories found on ongoing solos. And the fact that those teambooks sell and they appeared just goes to show that those characters are still there, whether they did something or nothing significant at all. Their appearances simply mean they are significant.

That is why Storm is still considered the most popular black character because of consistents appearances. Which explains why Storm is more known as a leader than other female leaders because of always being a leader on teambooks. So please , do not ignore the importance of apperances especially on teambooks some posters simply ignore because they just count the number of issues on the ongoing solos.

[Confuzzled]

I don't think it's really a testament to Dazzler's longevity as much as it shows how underused Marvel's other heroines have been, considering that all those issues of Dazzler come from her one solo series back in the 1980s, yet few heroines since then in 2017 have been able to surpass her.

While it's true that Marvel has painfully underused its heroines, Dazzler sustaining a run of that length is interesting in its own way, considering she's ultra-feminine and her stories are dipped in glamour and celebrity culture, two aspects that are stereotypically considered as antithetical to the superhero genre.

El_Gato's updated list showing Amethyst: Princess of Gemworld being close behind is fascinating to me for similar reasons.