Batman #33 “A Dream Of Me.”

[JBatmanFan05]

When was he engaged to Talia?

Practically it felt like, mostly in the Son of the Demon. Which I think people have been arguing about too much (as far as canonicity nitpicking, which regardless, the story has been read and absorbed by so many fans)

[DanseMacabre]

Here's some more info from http://io9.gizmodo.com/catwoman-will...arr-1797106120

King explained that, in Batman’s mind, he’s got to do something completely illegal to deal with the repercussions of Selina’s answer. Batman’s course of action leaves the Robins blown away and the Justice League will disapprove, too. King went on to say that it’s also a story about how the Robins react to what their father’s going through, adding that part of the drama will be how Damien Wayne reacts to seeing Bruce propose to someone who isn’t his mother.

“Is he going crazy or is he finally finding peace?” That’s the question that all of Batman’s sons will collectively ask themeselves, King said. He also said that Bruce will be encountering past loves like Silver St. Cloud and grappling with why they failed.

I talked to King after the breakfast was over and started out by asking him how changed the Dark Knight will be at the end of his planned 100-issue arc. “As long as I’m writing Batman, it’s going to be Bruce Wayne in the cowl as a good guy,” he began. “I do a lot of bullshit fancy artsy comics that try to be literary and that’s fine. But what comics do best—the thing they actually do that helps the world—is that it relieves the pressure and pain of young people who feel alienated. It’s the 13-, 14-year-old kids who don’t fit in, sitting at the lunch table and their friends aren’t talking to them, looking at people thinking ‘how have you figured out the world and I haven’t figured it out.’ You read a comic and it relieves the pressure of that pain.”

According to the writer, it’s also a matter of bullies. “You think to yourself, ‘I thought when bullies do bully things, they always lost. But [in the real world] I see bullies do bully things and they win,’” King continued. “What comics do is say ‘there’s the bullies and a good guy’s gonna punch him in the face at the end of the day.’ As long as I’m writing Batman, that will be the essential message.”

I mentioned to King that I was surprised that he was allowed to tell people the exact issue when Selina would give Bruce an answer; the build-up reminds me of another momentous turn in Batman’s publishing history, when the fate of Jason Todd was left in the hands of readers calling to vote whether he should live or die. (“Dying’s the best thing that ever happened to that character,” King said in an aside.) I asked King how he thought readers would vote if a similar scenario were applied to Catwoman’s answer to Batman’s marriage proposal. “I think they’d vote for yes,” he answered. “I think people always hope for the happiness of their heroes. And people think Batman’s happiness would be in him being engaged. I’m not sure they’re right about that.”

“Batman has no desire to change who Selina is,” King continued. “It’s who she is that attracts him to her and he knows that she’s broken in the same way that he’s broken. It’s why they’re in love; they’re almost like pieces of a puzzle that can fit together and make a whole.”

[WontonGirl]

There's a new article on from io9.

Can you post a link?

[WontonGirl]

Practically it felt like, mostly in the Son of the Demon. Which I think people have been arguing about too much (as far as canonicity nitpicking, which regardless, the story has been read and absorbed by so many fans)

I thought that she was saying they were married from the time when they kidnapped him and Ra's married him off on the yatch without his permission? But Bats didn't consider that real.

[JBatmanFan05]

I thought that she was saying they were married from the time when they kidnapped him and Ra's married him off on the yatch without his permission? But Bats didn't consider that real.

She and Ra's have claimed all sorts, that Batman denied (which is key to me), he denied that pre-Son of the Demon yatch hitching, but Batman was like sorta willingly "engaged" (not using that word per se, I can't recall) with Talia, clearly on the verge, in Son of the Demon when he knew she was with child. Consenting marriage might have really happened there and then....and then it fell apart.

[WontonGirl]

Here's some more info from http://io9.gizmodo.com/catwoman-will...arr-1797106120

King explained that, in Batman’s mind, he’s got to do something completely illegal to deal with the repercussions of Selina’s answer. Batman’s course of action leaves the Robins blown away and the Justice League will disapprove, too. King went on to say that it’s also a story about how the Robins react to what their father’s going through, adding that part of the drama will be how Damien Wayne reacts to seeing Bruce propose to someone who isn’t his mother.

“Is he going crazy or is he finally finding peace?” That’s the question that all of Batman’s sons will collectively ask themeselves, King said. He also said that Bruce will be encountering past loves like Silver St. Cloud and grappling with why they failed.

I talked to King after the breakfast was over and started out by asking him how changed the Dark Knight will be at the end of his planned 100-issue arc. “As long as I’m writing Batman, it’s going to be Bruce Wayne in the cowl as a good guy,” he began. “I do a lot of bullshit fancy artsy comics that try to be literary and that’s fine. But what comics do best—the thing they actually do that helps the world—is that it relieves the pressure and pain of young people who feel alienated. It’s the 13-, 14-year-old kids who don’t fit in, sitting at the lunch table and their friends aren’t talking to them, looking at people thinking ‘how have you figured out the world and I haven’t figured it out.’ You read a comic and it relieves the pressure of that pain.”

According to the writer, it’s also a matter of bullies. “You think to yourself, ‘I thought when bullies do bully things, they always lost. But [in the real world] I see bullies do bully things and they win,’” King continued. “What comics do is say ‘there’s the bullies and a good guy’s gonna punch him in the face at the end of the day.’ As long as I’m writing Batman, that will be the essential message.”

I mentioned to King that I was surprised that he was allowed to tell people the exact issue when Selina would give Bruce an answer; the build-up reminds me of another momentous turn in Batman’s publishing history, when the fate of Jason Todd was left in the hands of readers calling to vote whether he should live or die. (“Dying’s the best thing that ever happened to that character,” King said in an aside.) I asked King how he thought readers would vote if a similar scenario were applied to Catwoman’s answer to Batman’s marriage proposal. “I think they’d vote for yes,” he answered. “I think people always hope for the happiness of their heroes. And people think Batman’s happiness would be in him being engaged. I’m not sure they’re right about that.”

“Batman has no desire to change who Selina is,” King continued. “It’s who she is that attracts him to her and he knows that she’s broken in the same way that he’s broken. It’s why they’re in love; they’re almost like pieces of a puzzle that can fit together and make a whole.”

So in other words, she says NO.

[DanseMacabre]

So in other words, she says NO.

I don't know the newest Birds of Prey prints another picture--I think King is just being vauge.

Batman BOP (2).jpg

[WontonGirl]

She and Ra's have claimed all sorts, that Batman denied (which is key to me), he denied that pre-Son of the Demon yatch hitching, but Batman was like sorta willingly "engaged" (not using that word per se, I can't recall) with Talia, clearly on the verge, in Son of the Demon when he knew she was with child. Consenting marriage might have really happened there and then....and then it fell apart.

Well if Batman had been married before, that would had been a big deal and and would had mentioned that he has been married before. Son of Demon is like The Widening Grye with Silver St. Cloud. It's not canon.

[WontonGirl]

I don't know the newest Birds of Prey prints another picture--I think King is just being vauge.

Batman BOP (2).jpg

No, those panels are probably in their to throw people off so people would assume she said and get excited and keep buying his arc.

I feel so stupid right now.

[JBatmanFan05]

Son of Demon is like The Widening Grye with Silver St. Cloud. It's not canon.

I think arguing strict canon, parsing this and that, is kinda sadly, kinda not a more meaningless thing nowadays. I think (probably like Morrison did) that Son of the Demon can easily be viewed as canon by Batman fans and I consider it canon mostly because I enjoyed the story and art and felt it didn't do anything radical.


(But I agree on Widening Gyre, but I also hate that. Hate Englehart's Dark Detective too, which some try to think maybe it is canon and I resist that)

[Atlanta96]

I love how Tom King confirmed that Tim Drake will be in this story, and even called him Bruce's son, but made no mention of Duke at all. I'm actually looking forward to this!

[WontonGirl]

I think arguing strict canon, parsing this and that, is kinda sadly, kinda not a more meaningless thing nowadays. I think (probably like Morrison did) that Son of the Demon can easily be viewed as canon by Batman fans and I consider it canon mostly because I enjoyed the story and art and felt it didn't do anything radical.


(But I agree on Widening Gyre, but I also hate that. Hate Englehart's Dark Detective too, which some try to think maybe it is canon and I resist that)

Okay well then Son of Demon was canon and Batman was married to Talia. You win.

[WontonGirl]

I love how Tom King confirmed that Tim Drake will be in this story, and even called him Bruce's son, but made no mention of Duke at all. I'm actually looking forward to this!

Me too. Batman has 4 sons.

[JBatmanFan05]

Okay well then Son of Demon was canon and Batman was married to Talia. You win.

Nah, I myself don't count anything in there as a US legal marriage.

[Frontier]

Here's some more info from http://io9.gizmodo.com/catwoman-will...arr-1797106120

King explained that, in Batman’s mind, he’s got to do something completely illegal to deal with the repercussions of Selina’s answer. Batman’s course of action leaves the Robins blown away and the Justice League will disapprove, too. King went on to say that it’s also a story about how the Robins react to what their father’s going through, adding that part of the drama will be how Damien Wayne reacts to seeing Bruce propose to someone who isn’t his mother.

“Is he going crazy or is he finally finding peace?” That’s the question that all of Batman’s sons will collectively ask themeselves, King said. He also said that Bruce will be encountering past loves like Silver St. Cloud and grappling with why they failed.

I talked to King after the breakfast was over and started out by asking him how changed the Dark Knight will be at the end of his planned 100-issue arc. “As long as I’m writing Batman, it’s going to be Bruce Wayne in the cowl as a good guy,” he began. “I do a lot of bullshit fancy artsy comics that try to be literary and that’s fine. But what comics do best—the thing they actually do that helps the world—is that it relieves the pressure and pain of young people who feel alienated. It’s the 13-, 14-year-old kids who don’t fit in, sitting at the lunch table and their friends aren’t talking to them, looking at people thinking ‘how have you figured out the world and I haven’t figured it out.’ You read a comic and it relieves the pressure of that pain.”

According to the writer, it’s also a matter of bullies. “You think to yourself, ‘I thought when bullies do bully things, they always lost. But [in the real world] I see bullies do bully things and they win,’” King continued. “What comics do is say ‘there’s the bullies and a good guy’s gonna punch him in the face at the end of the day.’ As long as I’m writing Batman, that will be the essential message.”

I mentioned to King that I was surprised that he was allowed to tell people the exact issue when Selina would give Bruce an answer; the build-up reminds me of another momentous turn in Batman’s publishing history, when the fate of Jason Todd was left in the hands of readers calling to vote whether he should live or die. (“Dying’s the best thing that ever happened to that character,” King said in an aside.) I asked King how he thought readers would vote if a similar scenario were applied to Catwoman’s answer to Batman’s marriage proposal. “I think they’d vote for yes,” he answered. “I think people always hope for the happiness of their heroes. And people think Batman’s happiness would be in him being engaged. I’m not sure they’re right about that.”

“Batman has no desire to change who Selina is,” King continued. “It’s who she is that attracts him to her and he knows that she’s broken in the same way that he’s broken. It’s why they’re in love; they’re almost like pieces of a puzzle that can fit together and make a whole.”

I wonder what would push Batman to do something illegal to deal with whatever Selina's answer is.

I'm also glad we're going to actually see Damian's reaction to what's going on.

I get the sense from this is that Selina will say no and that part of it will be because this isn't what Batman needs to do to find the happiness his father wanted for him. At least, that's my take on it.

(But I agree on Widening Gyre, but I also hate that. Hate Englehart's Dark Detective too, which some try to think maybe it is canon and I resist that)

May I ask what it is about Dark Detective that you hate?