Superman in Doomsday Clock

[MajorHoy]

I have no idea about where this will go, but I'm on board. Great 1st issue!

Trouble is, will Johns follow up with more great issues or flounder after the first two-or-three?

His past track record of stories I've suffered through in the past 7-8 years are

* good start
* treads water / holding pattern in the middle issues
* limps along to an ending that seems rushed and/or seems like he already lost interest in this story and can't wait to start the next one

But that may just be me.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Trouble is, will Johns follow up with more great issues or flounder after the first two-or-three?

His past track record of stories I've suffered through in the past 7-8 years are

* good start
* treads water / holding pattern in the middle issues
* limps along to an ending that seems rushed and/or seems like he already lost interest in this story and can't wait to start the next one

But that may just be me.

Given that this will likely be Johns last comics work for quite some time, I don't think you'll have to worry about him half-assing this. Regardless of what the final result is, I am pretty certain that Johns will be giving this project his all and there's very little danger of it getting derailed by editorial edicts and whims like his previous projects. For good or ill, Johns will have to own this one.

He chose to tell this story. If it fails, they'll be nobody to blame. However, if it succeeds, he should absolutely be given the credit for taking a risk like this, particularly after how poorly received Before Watchmen was.

[superduperman]

Okay, I FINALLY read this and, as much as I oppose the idea of a Watchmen sequel, this was very good. Obviously they are implying that DM was responsible for the death of the Kents which will be interesting to see where they go with this. Will they acknowledge that DC comics exist in the Watchmen universe and that DM created theirs? Will they suggest that DM is responsible for all the reboots Superman has had? Will they ignore all these things and just have a good ol' fashion Superman/Dr. Manhattan fight? Will he ever return to his own universe to save it?

[Sacred Knight]

More than anything I'm just lamenting the very high possibility that, since DM was heavily implied as having been responsible for the death of the Kents (Morrison rip-off with Vyn), that Johns will also go the cheap route of then having it reversed. I'll hate it, but I could totally see it at this point. I think when all is said and done we're heading for a future for Superman where he once again has absolutely everything his heart desires. Yay.

[Ascended]

More than anything I'm just lamenting the very high possibility that, since DM was heavily implied as having been responsible for the death of the Kents (Morrison rip-off with Vyn), that Johns will also go the cheap route of then having it reversed. I'll hate it, but I could totally see it at this point. I think when all is said and done we're heading for a future for Superman where he once again has absolutely everything his heart desires. Yay.

That's my concern as well.

For someone who does such great work with most of the DCU, it's a damn shame that Johns keeps ruining Superman. If he had just churned out one bad run and learned his lesson, never to touch Clark again outside of team titles or big events, I could forgive him. But it seems like every time Clark is starting to get his feet under him, Johns comes in and destroys it, forcing a return to a post-Crisis-like status quo that has proven to struggle.

[Sacred Knight]

Geoff Johns: Screwing up Superman's mythos since 2003.

If he doesn't go through with it, I promise to take it back and will be pleasantly surprised. But my guess is by the end of next year, part of DM's defeat will have to do with Jor-El pulling some sort of sacrificial maneuver that, while it reverts his past and he dies on Krypton as intended, at least Martha is returned to life.

[superduperman]

Geoff Johns: Screwing up Superman's mythos since 2003.

If he doesn't go through with it, I promise to take it back and will be pleasantly surprised. But my guess is by the end of next year, part of DM's defeat will have to do with Jor-El pulling some sort of sacrificial maneuver that, while it reverts his past and he dies on Krypton as intended, at least Martha is returned to life.

The worst part of having Johns in charge is that whatever they end up doing will probably be canon for years now. People are sick of reboots, which means that whatever Superman's Rebirth origin is will probably be the official one for a long time. So far, I haven't liked what I've seen. It's all the worst elements of both SO and New 52. The Kents are dead and the way he discovered flight in SO was just stupid. Which is all we've really seen so far. And I've never really liked the idea of Clark and Lex growing up together. Yes, even in the pre-Crisis universe it was kind of dumb but at least it was done to provide the reason for why Lex hates Superman so much. Which had nothing to do with why he hated him in SO. So it was shoehorned in for no reason.

I made the joke earlier this year that they could show him flying out of the rocket from day one and I'd probably not care at this point. That's how sick I am of reboots. Yes, we'll probably get the Kents back by the end of this but if that's all we get then it was a waste. Especially if all we get is Martha. What I want is an explanation for the constant reboots. I want Superman to know that he's been constantly rebooted and some sort of explanation for why. If it turns out DM was responsible for that, THEN it might be worth it. But I can't imagine that what we'll get out of this will be worth 12 issues and a Watchmen sequel not written by Alan Moore. Not that I'm not enjoying that part. And, yes, some of this is sour grapes over undoing New 52.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm just so uncomfortable with a guy who's done more bad than good with this mythos basically hovering over everything now like a specter for the entirety of 2018.

[FishyZombie]

I couldn’t care less if the Kents are alive or not. But their deaths being caused by malevolent cosmic forces was terrible in the new 52 and it’s terrible here, if it is what it seems. Seriously if they’re going to be dead, and I’m totally cool with that direction, just give them regular boring deaths. Also them dying at his high school prom is just hammy melodrama. If it’s gonna be an auto accident, make it on some regular day. Sometimes less is more. This is one of those times Dc!

[Sacred Knight]

With any luck we have it wrong and Clark's dream of his parents' death isn't trying to not-so-subtly tell us that Manhattan was responsible for it, rather its just his sub-conscious bringing back to mind the greatest tragedy in his life as an omen that something terrible is coming now. But, Johns is rarely subtle. If it comes down to subtle symbolism and something literal and in-your-face, the safer bet is that its the literal and in-your-face.

But again, hopefully he surprises. To me, he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt to assume the best. But if he does good despite my low expectations, I will own it. And be glad to.

[Frontier]

Well, firstly, I don't think bringing the Kents back would ruin Superman.

I mean, it would be nice to see Jon get to physically interact with his grandparents and get more subversion of the "dead parents" trope at this point.

Secondly, even if there is some kind of reversal of their deaths if Manhattan caused it I expect it will just be Martha who comes back while Jonathan will probably have still died from a heart attack like he did Pre-Flashpoint (as written by Johns), so the Kents will just have been able to have more time with Clark and see him grow into becoming Superman, maybe even meet Lois.

I really just don't see the harm in that.

[Sacred Knight]

It alone wouldn't ruin him. He existed just fine for two decades with it the norm. But he existed better for fifty years prior with it the other way around. And not because its dark. There's nothing dark about it. They are an incredibly powerful positive memory for Clark in death, the stark opposite of the demons of Bruce. And they have far greater influence on the man Superman became and continues to be in death than they do in life. All in my opinion, but that opinion is Superman is a much better character for it. I don't support for a second losing that just to promite Jon having a grandparent(s). Especially since he'll already have two for a while, and even if one (Jor-El) is short term, the other (Sam) should be long term. And frankly a dynamic with his maternal grandfather has more potential anyway. So to me its totally not worth it. But that alone isn't complete ruination.

The ruination I fear though comes from the larger scope of Johns' influence on the character for a substantial period of time. Considering Doomsday Clock takes place a year in the future and will not complete till near the end of 2018, that's an entire year where Superman's stories just might hinge on and coincide with Johns' ideas. And he has far more power now than he ever has had before so who knows if even after that he'll leave the Superman office to its own devices. I just don't trust his influence at the end of the day.

[Frontier]

It alone wouldn't ruin him. He existed just fine for two decades with it the norm. But he existed better for fifty years prior with it the other way around.

I don't think he was better or worse for not having them, but that's just me.

I like the Kents being around but I understand that's not a unanimous opinion among fans.

I think it would be nice to at least have Martha back.

The ruination I fear though comes from the larger scope of Johns' influence on the character. I just don't trust him at all with this mythos.

Well, if nothing else, I think there's going to be a lot more going on with DCU continuity in this then just Superman, given he wasn't the only one Manhattan effected.

I also don't see that much of the mythos ultimately being effected by this event.

[Sacred Knight]

Well in the end I do hope you're the one who's right.

[superduperman]

Well, firstly, I don't think bringing the Kents back would ruin Superman.

I mean, it would be nice to see Jon get to physically interact with his grandparents and get more subversion of the "dead parents" trope at this point.

Secondly, even if there is some kind of reversal of their deaths if Manhattan caused it I expect it will just be Martha who comes back while Jonathan will probably have still died from a heart attack like he did Pre-Flashpoint (as written by Johns), so the Kents will just have been able to have more time with Clark and see him grow into becoming Superman, maybe even meet Lois.

I really just don't see the harm in that.

This seems like a long way around just to get us back to the status quo of six years ago. If they want to just bring back the old continuity then just do it. No need to drag Watchmen characters into this for no reason. I want something of a bigger payoff. I don't see why we should go through a year long mini-series just to end up right back where we were ten years ago. Superman has been rebooted something like six times. I want an explanation for why. They need to address this. DM is the perfect cause.