When Logan Comes Back: Should X-23 Still Be Wolverine?

[Ambaryerno]

No. Does Dick Grayson need to be in a title called Batman? Look at how long Tim had a book. He didn't need to be Batman to stay in publication. Should Supergirl be renamed Superman? Why do you all think that X23 needs to be named Wolverine to stay in publication? There has been a Batgirl in publication in one form or another for what two decade's. The simple fact is that most of you think X23 needs the name. I don't. I just listed examples of legacy characters that have been successful using theit own name. Why do you all think Marvel can't do this?

You've got a lot of Apples and Oranges situations there.

Bruce and Superman are both still active in the DC universe so there's no REASON for any of their Legacies to take up their name/mantle (and in the past Dick HAS used the Batman name).

[Sin Nick]

Nope. I've said it time and time again, Marvel did Laura a great disservice by not giving her a true code name after she first appeared. They should've just went on ahead with Talon like it was teased in her mini.



As it stands now, she'll mostly be referred to as X-23 or Laura by most, but nobody truly thinks of her as Wolverine. When people say Wolverine, they're gonna automatically think of this guy...



Kinda like when somebody says Ghostbusters is one of their favorite films, people will assume they're talking about the original and not the all female cast version. I just don't see Laura making that next leap into A-list as long as she has the Wolverine title because Marvel isn't/didn't allow her to forge her own identity.

[WeaponX]

Thing is, Logan is already a viable codename. His real name is James Howlett.

And that is THE number one thing Marvel needs to retcon. That was one of the stupidest decisions they ever made with the character and that's saying a lot with that Romulus Daken garbage they created.

[nnelg]

You've got a lot of Apples and Oranges situations there.

Bruce and Superman are both still active in the DC universe so there's no REASON for any of their Legacies to take up their name/mantle (and in the past Dick HAS used the Batman name).

How do I have a lot of apples and oranges situations listed. Nightwing is a successful legacy character. A version of Wolverine is still active in the Marvel universe. If she supposed to be a real replacement why did Marvel wait to publish her book alongside the OML. They had plenty of time to do it. Also it was mostly Wolverine fans buying her book before it was canceled they are buying it now. The name change is and was unnecessary. She didn't need it. What hurt her book before was the amount of Wolverine titles being published. I have commented on them cannibalizing their titles also. If he had only title I doubt her book would have been canceled.



As far as Dick being Batman. Yeah that has happened. DC didn't start publishing a title call Old Man Bruce thst coincided with his first issue.

[Dthirds3]

How do I have a lot of apples and oranges situations listed. Nightwing is a successful legacy character. A version of Wolverine is still active in the Marvel universe. If she supposed to be a real replacement why did Marvel wait to publish her book alongside the OML. They had plenty of time to do it. Also it was mostly Wolverine fans buying her book before it was canceled they are buying it now. The name change is and was unnecessary. She didn't need it. What hurt her book before was the amount of Wolverine titles being published. I have commented on them cannibalizing their titles also. If he had only title I doubt her book would have been canceled.



As far as Dick being Batman. Yeah that has happened. DC didn't start publishing a title call Old Man Bruce thst coincided with his first issue.

Didn't her book come out three months before old man Logan's

[Jackraow21]

Probably a moot point. If they don't announce 616 Logan coming back as part of Legacy at SDCC this weekend, odds are good that he ain't coming back anytime soon and we're keeping the current set up with OML and All New Wolverine.

We should know in short order...

[Tycon]

I never truly got the 'want' for the 'real' Logan back. Old Man Logan will literally serve the same purpose if 616 Logan came back. Actually, doesn't OML have the advantage of not having his history being rooted in shit-tier stories like Schism and AvX?

[Beaubier]

Laura is one of my favorite characters. If Logan returned, I would not want her to keep going by 'Wolverine'. I wouldn't want her to go back to going by X-23 either. I'd want her to choose a new identity that is 100% her own. Such as the previously hinted Talon.

I know some people will argue that Marvel will never do that because of marketing and their fondness for Legacy heroes and blah blah blah. I really don't care. There's a few other heroes that switched codenames over the years, some multiple times, and it wasn't the end of the world.

Currently in the story, it makes sense story-wise that Laura is using the name Wolverine. I like that she took up the mantle to feel close to him and to honor the hero he was, to keep his memory alive. Once he comes back, that purpose no longer exists, and Laura can do her own thing. And maybe that can keep a multitude of writers who see her as female-Wolverine, and literally write her as Logan with boobs. While I like the logic behind her current role was Wolverine, I do NOT like how many writers do not respect her character because they write her as the costume and not who she really is. The majority of those who have written Laura-as-Wolverine have done her a disservice.

[XCE]

I do not want her to use the name Wolverine, that belongs to Logan. And I don't mean that as in she's "not worthy of the name" or any such nonsense, it's simply because it feels like it's a detriment to my favorite character, Laura.

Look at any "compose your favorite X-team" or similar threads on this very forum and you'll see the majority of posters use "Wolverine" to refer to Logan and "X-23" to refer to Laura. One or two may use "Wolverine (Laura)" but that's it. And yet the vast majority of them are well aware of the fact that Laura is currently using the Wolverine name. The fact is, you can't just erase 40+ years of history and suddenly do a "search and replace" on the collective consciousness. Logan will always be Wolverine, the first and the foremost.

As for alternatives, I'm happy for her to go back to X-23. Why? Because it's a pretty cool name, and because she's already well known under that name. True, it doesn't make sense for her to hang onto that name given its origins, but in-universe the other X-Men mainly referred to her as Laura before the name change anyway. So I don't see a problem with having X-23 on the cover title but having people refer to her as Laura in the stories. Kitty Pryde says it shouldn't be an issue.

There is also another downside that comes with Laura donning the Wolverine costume, and it's the fact that the cowl tends to cover up the personality behind it. People, and that even includes many of Marvel's writers, see the cowl and tend to attribute some of Logan's characteristics to Laura, when they are in reality very different characters.

[nnelg]

Didn't her book come out three months before old man Logan's

I think it did. But my point is still valid. They had what a 1-2 years without Wolverine to try to build X23 as a flagship character. They didn't. They announced her book and his basically at the same time. And three months where is the 1-3 years that is normally given to the replacement characters? If she truly was intended to replace Wolverine she would've at least had a year.

[jpmst17]

didn't she take up the mantle of wolverine to honor logan? would only make sense that she give it back if he comes back to life

[Ianbarreilles]

I think she be allowed to remain as her own all new wolverine even if and when the 616 James howlett does return from the dead, I don't think his return means that she shouldn't be allowed to consume as her own all new wolverine.

Lastly I don't want her series to ever be titled as x-23 ever again just as I don't want her to be referee to as x-23 in the comics since it's a part of her past that she would rather leave behind and the recent enemy of the state ii arc established.

[Jackraow21]

didn't she take up the mantle of wolverine to honor logan? would only make sense that she give it back if he comes back to life

Hence why I now think he's not coming back. At least not anytime soon. Of all the legacy characters they pushed into iconic codenames, Laura and Miles Morales have been the best received saleswise I think. Certainly better than Riri Williams or FalconCap, probably better even than Jane Foster as Thor and Ms. Marvel from a sales perspective. Or Cho Hulk even. And in the case of Miles, they've successfully made it work where there are two Spider-men running around. Even made in-story jokes about how Peter "franchised" the name out to Miles. I'm not sure you can make that work again with two Wolverines running around, meaning two characters both calling themselves Wolverine (I fully understand that we have multiple Wolverine like characters now in Jimmy, Laura, Logan and Daken).

With Old Man Logan, you have a perfectly plausible in story reason for why he no longer goes by Wolverine and why Laura has the codename (to honor the fallen Logan of this world). You also have the best of both worlds in that Logan's book is a top seller and he seamlessly steps into the former Logan role, just wearing a bomber jacket or beat up duster instead of a skintight outfit with a cowl. While Laura's book also sells well and she has stepped successfully into the mantle of Wolverine. A win-win for Marvel. Score one for diversity, while also keeping Logan fans pretty happy with his gray haired replacement.

[Dthirds3]

I think it did. But my point is still valid. They had what a 1-2 years without Wolverine to try to build X23 as a flagship character. They didn't. They announced her book and his basically at the same time. And three months where is the 1-3 years that is normally given to the replacement characters? If she truly was intended to replace Wolverine she would've at least had a year.

The thing is they kind of did, but it was done with no idea of what they were doing. All new X-men and Wolverines were meant to do that, but having her be degraded to make angle interesting and wolverines altered ending du to secrete wars (We all know it was originally meant to be her crowning her self wolverine) hurt her, same with hopeless continuing what Bendis and trying to force a severely flawed romance. And in the month's before oml arrived Taylor trying to sugar cote her didn't help. it was a good concept but taking away all her pain and making her so reserved to kill took away from the gritty aspect of being wolverine.(too his credit he is somewhat trying to amend this.) and after oml arrived having him used to prop her up would have helped to give her legitimacy but any chance of that was blocked to give focus to the drunken mess of a inhuman plot. She was intended to replace him its just poor planning and execution screwed her over. If they a few minutes to plan it out she would have been well on he way of surpassing logan by now.

[Ambaryerno]

I think it did. But my point is still valid. They had what a 1-2 years without Wolverine to try to build X23 as a flagship character. They didn't. They announced her book and his basically at the same time. And three months where is the 1-3 years that is normally given to the replacement characters? If she truly was intended to replace Wolverine she would've at least had a year.

To be fair, Wolverines appeared to be in the process of doing just that. Based on how abruptly it ended on issue 20 (and the fact they were pushing it out almost weekly to get THAT much) for Secret Wars, I think the original plan was that we WOULD have seen her take an increasingly more prominent role going forward. ESPECIALLY as Soule seemed to be setting her up for a confrontation with Mystique later (RE, their conversation at the end of the arc where she, Daken, and Blade capture Siphon, and she pretty much throws down the gauntlet). I once asked Soule (I think it was sometime after ANW #1 was published) if it was meant to be the framework for Laura becoming Wolverine, and he responded to the effect of why do I think he had Fantomelle give her one of Logan's costumes (don't forget about that: Her becoming Wolverine was teased as early as issue 13 of Wolverines).

TLDR, we WOULD have gotten that build up, but Secret Wars screwed it up.

And as Dthirds said, a sizable part was a fustercluck of bad management. Although I lay most of that on Hopeless as the one who really cocked it up by openly admitting he was NOT going to be building on the fact she was the most experienced member of the team, or the leadership qualities developing during NXM, the Liu series, Avengers Academy/Arena, and (yes, even) Bendis's run, and that she was just on the team for "Wolverine things" (translation: lots of snarling and rushing in to get her ass kicked) and his insistence on making her relationship with Warren the remaining 80% of her plot.

didn't she take up the mantle of wolverine to honor logan? would only make sense that she give it back if he comes back to life

Simple:

Laura gives Logan back the cowl, Logan tells her to keep it.