Worst Part of 'War Games'?

[JasonTodd428]

I agree. Just playing devil's advocate. And War Games has a weirdly large part in my Steph love because it's the first time I really remember being aware of her. And because of that, when she came back, even though I wasn't really reading comics a lot at the time, I was happy - and then when I found out she was Batgirl, it was even more meaningful.

That's completely understandable. For myself I didn't "meet" Steph until she'd already returned and was Batgirl. I liked the character well enough in that first issue that I backtracked to read a lot of her earlier appearances. War Games was like a punch in the gut to me, which I suppose on some level means that it "worked", but it was just such a bad story all around that I really can't even recommend it.

[millernumber1]

That's completely understandable. For myself I didn't "meet" Steph until she'd already returned and was Batgirl. I liked the character well enough in that first issue that I backtracked to read a lot of her earlier appearances. War Games was like a punch in the gut to me, which I suppose on some level means that it "worked", but it was just such a bad story all around that I really can't even recommend it.

Yeah, I definitely don't recommend it to anyone. But I do love Steph as Robin, and all of that is collected in the first volume of the new reprint...

[JasonTodd428]

Yeah, I definitely don't recommend it to anyone. But I do love Steph as Robin, and all of that is collected in the first volume of the new reprint...

Um...do I pick up that new reprint for Steph as Robin or not....I'm missing few singles there....That's quite the quandary, isn't it?

[Aioros22]

The feel of malice + character writting + fridge.

Not the sort of story I care for. DITF was the same except the veil of malice has been lifted with his return with turned the bad around to create good narrative out of it.

[millernumber1]

Um...do I pick up that new reprint for Steph as Robin or not....I'm missing few singles there....That's quite the quandary, isn't it?

Well. I already have the main ones, but I did buy it digitally on sale to get copies of them, because a lot of those issues were printed on newsprint, so the reprint on glossy is an improvement. The ones it has are Detective Comics #796, Solo #10, Batgirl #53, and Robin #126-128. It doesn't have Teen Titans #13, but that wasn't really part of the story, just a reflection of the status quo for like 3 pages. But I do like Steph in them.

I justified it because I love Steph as Robin, it was on a really good sale, and it doesn't contain any of the stuff where Steph is tortured. I admit, I am sometimes tempted to get Book 2 for completion, and because I like the way Joker is mad at Black Mask because he killed Robin, which indicates that Steph was really Robin, but...I think I can hold out. Book 2 has all the really, really bad stuff.

[JasonTodd428]

Well. I already have the main ones, but I did buy it digitally on sale to get copies of them, because a lot of those issues were printed on newsprint, so the reprint on glossy is an improvement. The ones it has are Detective Comics #796, Solo #10, Batgirl #53, and Robin #126-128. It doesn't have Teen Titans #13, but that wasn't really part of the story, just a reflection of the status quo for like 3 pages. But I do like Steph in them.

I justified it because I love Steph as Robin, it was on a really good sale, and it doesn't contain any of the stuff where Steph is tortured. I admit, I am sometimes tempted to get Book 2 for completion, and because I like the way Joker is mad at Black Mask because he killed Robin, which indicates that Steph was really Robin, but...I think I can hold out. Book 2 has all the really, really bad stuff.

I might have to pick it up next time its on sale then so long as the worst part of that story isn't involved. As I said I never found all the single issues back when I was still collecting and since I'm extremely allergic to the newprint these days anyway a digital copy might be just what I'm looking for.

[millernumber1]

I might have to pick it up next time its on sale then so long as the worst part of that story isn't involved. As I said I never found all the single issues back when I was still collecting and since I'm extremely allergic to the newprint these days anyway a digital copy might be just what I'm looking for.

Definitely. Steph as Robin is worth having!

[Aahz]

The contingency plan, it never really seemed like this thing could work in the first place, and was way to simple for something that Batman planed, and with this central plot element making no sense, the story didn't work.

I also dislike the Steph Jason comparison they made in the beginning, that was imo just nonsense.

[darkseidpwns]

Agreed, the basic premise, the very foundation of this story was crap.

[Aahz]

Agreed, the basic premise, the very foundation of this story was crap.

I think the you could have done something with the premise, but that would have needed a more elaborated plan than just calling all the mob bosses for a meeting. I mean what would a plan like this proof about Steph being capable of being Robin anyway.

[millernumber1]

The contingency plan, it never really seemed like this thing could work in the first place, and was way to simple for something that Batman planed, and with this central plot element making no sense, the story didn't work.

I also dislike the Steph Jason comparison they made in the beginning, that was imo just nonsense.

I think the you could have done something with the premise, but that would have needed a more elaborated plan than just calling all the mob bosses for a meeting. I mean what would a plan like this proof about Steph being capable of being Robin anyway.

The Steph/Jason comparison made sense to me, but wasn't as strong as Gabrych was making it out to be. The "problem" with Steph, if there was one, was that she didn't have the opportunities that Tim and Dick had - her upbringing had more in common with Jason's than the other Robins. She was angry - but all of the Robins were angry. If Gabrych was trying to say that Steph was willing to use lethal force like Jason did with the Diplomat's Son in the Zsasz story, it was very, very different - in the heat of the moment to directly save Batman's life, rather than murder out of frustration at the system.

The whole War Games plan is actually something I liked - but it was clear that none of the writers really figured out what it was supposed to be. Grayson seemed to think it was just Batman using Matches Malone and Orpheus in a meeting to take over the gangs, the other writers seemed to think that it was so powerful a plan that Batman could recognize it from the power going off at a precise time even after everything went horribly wrong, and in the endgame, he said that the shooting war driving the gangs into a public park was part of the plan - why in the world would Batman ever plan something that resulted in a shooting war in civilian areas? You could argue that "That's why he never put it in motion" - but I think it's clear that Batman was putting the plan to use Orpheus and Onyx to destroy the gangs into motion from the Polished Stone backup stories (with Cassandra).

[Aahz]

The Steph/Jason comparison made sense to me, but wasn't as strong as Gabrych was making it out to be. The "problem" with Steph, if there was one, was that she didn't have the opportunities that Tim and Dick had - her upbringing had more in common with Jason's than the other Robins. She was angry - but all of the Robins were angry. If Gabrych was trying to say that Steph was willing to use lethal force like Jason did with the Diplomat's Son in the Zsasz story, it was very, very different - in the heat of the moment to directly save Batman's life, rather than murder out of frustration at the system.

Steph has as much in common with Dick as she has with Jason imo (maybe even more now), when it comes to her personality.

The are some parallels in their upbringing (criminal father, addicted mother) but Steph didn't had it nearly as hard as Jason, both of her parents were still alive and her mother even overcame her addiction.

And they are also implying that Jason wasn't good enough to be Robin and Bruce only let him because he wanted it so badly and died because he was reckless, which is also nonsense imo.

[Aahz]

The whole War Games plan is actually something I liked - but it was clear that none of the writers really figured out what it was supposed to be.

That's the big problem with War Games (and imo a lot of the recent Batfamily events). For a good story it must make sense what the characters and the villains are doing.

[Darkseid Is]

Don't remember very much of War Games at all to be honest. I vaguely remember Stephanie Brown dying but that's about it. It was my first crossover since I started reading comics. You'd think I would remember it more being my first but I remember not caring. I was just upset I had to buy all these books I wasn't buying. If it was anything special I guess I wouldn't mind. I might go back and re-read it since everyone thinks it's so awful. Just to get a good laugh.

[sunofdarkchild]

War Games can work if you take it as a deconstruction of everything Batman is.

The whole situation would have been avoided if Batman wasn't such an a-hole to his supposed partners, including but not limited to Steph.

The whole situation would have been avoided if Batman wasn't so controlling (as evidenced by the existence of the plan).

The whole situation would have been avoided had Batman actually done his job of weakening the mob in Gotham. If the mob is still that powerful after 15 years of Batmanning then Batman should retire as a failure.

The whole situation would have been avoided if Batman had bothered to upgrade his cybersecurity after Ra's al Ghul pulled the exact same stunt as Steph in Tower of Babel.

As an exploration of why Batman is terrible at being a superhero and really has no business fighting crime in the first place War Games is magnificent. As a story whose intention was to show why Batman is right and how awesome he is it's a complete and utter failure.