Bleeding Cool on Potential Oz Reveal (major potential spoilers)

[Miles To Go]

It appears Oz may very well be

spoilers:

Pre Crisis Jor El

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...r-oz-superman/

[DragonPiece]

It appears Oz may very well be

spoilers:

Pre Crisis Jor El

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...r-oz-superman/

This is about as random as it gets imo

[Atomic Man]

It appears Oz may very well be

spoilers:

Pre Crisis Jor El

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...r-oz-superman/

The Bleeding Cool rumor is one we've seen here before. I think I'd like it a lot more than a future Jon, and here's how I think it could play out.

spoilers:

When Manhattan tampered with the DCU at the Flashpoint, he sifted timelines from the New Earth/Earth-Zero continuity, itself presumably still a composite of the five Earths that remaine after COIE. We know from "The Button" that those timelines still exist in "storage" and that characters (Wally, then Jay) can escape them and return to the re-formatted timeline. It's entirely possible that anyone with the power and knowledge (which I suppose could include pre-COIE Jor-El) is aware of their current state "outside of time" and was able to begin manipulating events and people. Since we know Oz's prison is also "outside of time," it stands to reason Oz himself is not from DCU as it currently exists. That said, Jor-El never taught Kal how to get up after falling down, unless that's a reference to Kal learning to walk as an infant.

end of spoilers

[Sacred Knight]

The idea of someone from pre-Crisis trying to set a whole mythos straight after all the rebooting has a certain appeal to it. Is there much of a wow factor in regards to the actual identity if this is true? Not really. But I could get onboard with the overall plot of said character.

And yes, this would categorize as something that I'd read with my own two eyes that would make me entertain the idea that more than just scattered details of the current continuity are up for grabs. Wouldn't make me certain of it, because there would be the chance that something like this would be played to the effect that anything Oz wants to change is wrong, and he's thwarted, but it would open my mind more than it currently is.

Of course, I would hope and think that a pre-Crisis entity wanting to fix things would entail actually bringing back more pre-Crisis ideas, not more post-Crisis stuff. But considering the staff we're dealing with, this would probably be what happened, comically.

[Superlad93]

It appears Oz may very well be

spoilers:

Pre Crisis Jor El

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...r-oz-superman/

Not gonna like. I wan't sold till I read this part spoilers:

"Who is trying to put his son back together again from all the divided continuities, and using the power of Dr. Manhattan to get the job done…"

end of spoilers

That's actually kind of cool, and alleviates some of my fears about messing with the myth. This also brings up the possibility for a very interesting shift in continuity when all is said and done. By no means my first choice, but still thematically sound for what Rebirth is about, and potentially interesting.

Wait and see mode activated.

[FishyZombie]

It appears Oz may very well be

spoilers:

Pre Crisis Jor El

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...r-oz-superman/

Checks all the right boxes to me.
spoilers:

- blows Clark's mind? - red eyes? - Superman knows what his father looks like from fortress records, but would he recoginize a bald, clean shaven Jor-El who may or may not have aged 30 something years since krypton's destruction, depending on circumstances? Maybe not. - I believe pre-crisis Kal didn't leave krypton until he was like 4, correct me if I'm wrong, so to him he taught kal more stuff than other iterations I think. - only flaw is that it's moderately surprising he'd address him as 'Clark' and not the name he gave him. But I can see why he'd do that. It does make him look like a petty dick for destroying the Kent statues. You'd think he'd be grateful and not jealous. But we'll see how it turns out

end of spoilers

[Sacred Knight]

The direction this could possibly go in sounds a lot spoilers:

like I thought it would. Crisis never finished the way it originally did, so there was no clutterearth. This accounts for what was once the post-Crisis history, along now with New 52 elements, being somewhat different from the original in this new continuity. Sometimes slightly, sometimes rather drastically. It also accounts for the potential Mr. Oz candidate to exist if he's a version that somehow got time-displaced, because his Earth was never destroyed in the Crisis. Then, Doomsday Clock could fill in the blanks somewhat and give a tweak or so where viable. Seems to support the idea that what, if anything the events of Doomsday Clock will change, will ultimately be minimal and more correctional elements than anything else because the continuity as it stands now is "true" in the sense that its this world (maybe even if it is the original Earth-One), built on a template of the multiverse surviving.

end of spoilers

[Superlad93]

SPOILERS FOR NEXT WEEK'S ACTION COMICS


According to Bleeding Cool, the following happens

spoilers:

Zod is defeated by Jon in a Kryptonian battle suit, Jon is guided through the process via a telepathic link with Oz

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...r-oz-spoilers/

Wow, so all but confirmed who it is, huh?

[manofsteel1979]

The direction this could possibly go in sounds a lot spoilers:

like I thought it would. Crisis never finished the way it originally did, so there was no clutterearth. This accounts for what was once the post-Crisis history, along now with New 52 elements, being somewhat different from the original in this new continuity. Sometimes slightly, sometimes rather drastically. It also accounts for the potential Mr. Oz candidate to exist if he's a version that somehow got time-displaced, because his Earth was never destroyed in the Crisis. Then, Doomsday Clock could fill in the blanks somewhat and give a tweak or so where viable. Seems to support the idea that what, if anything the events of Doomsday Clock will change, will ultimately be minimal and more correctional elements than anything else because the continuity as it stands now is "true" in the sense that its this world (maybe even if it is the original Earth-One), built on a template of the multiverse surviving.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

it would explain an awful lot and ultimately a creative way to finally unifying the various continuities for Supes without negating any of them. If this ultimately fixes things in a way that incorporates the PreCrisis,Byrne's Reboot, Birthright, Secret Origin, New 52 and the current Rebirth era as one unbroken narrative from 1985 on... It'll be one hell of a feat. The more I think about it, PreCrisis Jor-El as Oz makes so much sense and I'm loving the possible implications more and more as time wears on.

end of spoilers

[superduperman]

In all seriousness, though, what would be the point of making Oz...

spoilers:

Pre-Crisis Jor-El? This is the problem with saying that all versions of Superman are the same. They aren't. The pre-Crisis Superman had a very different history than the Rebirth Superman, who seems to take most of his history from Johns Secret Origin. This isn't his son. Even the statues in the fortress of Jor-El and Lara confirm they are not the same person. He has no more connection to him than anyone else. I didn't think that Oz was really Ozymandias. That seemed too obvious. What would make a little more sense would be to have him be the pre-Crisis Superman. The one version who lost the most by changing the end of COIE. For all intents and purposes, he lost everything when history was changed. Or the original Earth 2 Superman. With COIE changed, Infinite Crisis never happened. That means he technically never died. His fate is unknown in this new timeline. Superboy Prime is another option. But would he be evil in this new timeline without IC? Changing the timeline changes everything. Not just one or two things. If COIE didn't end the way we remember, then everyone who was affected by it wasn't changed either. Either Convergence happened or it didn't. And if it did, then COIE couldn't have ended the way we remember. Changing the fate of everyone involved.

end of spoilers

[FishyZombie]

In all seriousness, though, what would be the point of making Oz...

spoilers:

Pre-Crisis Jor-El? This is the problem with saying that all versions of Superman are the same. They aren't. The pre-Crisis Superman had a very different history than the Rebirth Superman, who seems to take most of his history from Johns Secret Origin. This isn't his son. Even the statues in the fortress of Jor-El and Lara confirm they are not the same person. He has no more connection to him than anyone else. I didn't think that Oz was really Ozymandias. That seemed too obvious. What would make a little more sense would be to have him be the pre-Crisis Superman. The one version who lost the most by changing the end of COIE. For all intents and purposes, he lost everything when history was changed. Or the original Earth 2 Superman. With COIE changed, Infinite Crisis never happened. That means he technically never died. His fate is unknown in this new timeline. Superboy Prime is another option. But would he be evil in this new timeline without IC? Changing the timeline changes everything. Not just one or two things. If COIE didn't end the way we remember, then everyone who was affected by it wasn't changed either. Either Convergence happened or it didn't. And if it did, then COIE couldn't have ended the way we remember. Changing the fate of everyone involved.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

or is he? Besides golden age Superman who was apparently supposed to be the earth 2 Supes, aren't silver age/bronze age and post crisis and new 52 and post reborn Supermen all the same guy, just with his life rewritten every couple of years? Jor takes notice of this somehow, and is trying to use Manhatten's energy to stop the cycle of reboots and let his son live his life in peace. That's just my take, despite reading convergence and crisis on infinite earths, I can't wrap my head around how they went down. Because the 52 earth multiverse is the deal right? Not infinite earths.

end of spoilers

[Atomic Man]

spoilers:

or is he? Besides golden age Superman who was apparently supposed to be the earth 2 Supes, aren't silver age/bronze age and post crisis and new 52 and post reborn Supermen all the same guy, just with his life rewritten every couple of years? Jor takes notice of this somehow, and is trying to use Manhatten's energy to stop the cycle of reboots and let his son live his life in peace. That's just my take, despite reading convergence and crisis on infinite earths, I can't wrap my head around how they went down. Because the 52 earth multiverse is the deal right? Not infinite earths.

end of spoilers

The ending of Convergence restored an infinite Multiverse. Morrison, who had conceptual input on the Convergence storyline, said that the 52 Earths of Multiversity (which include the current DCU) are just one of infinite orreries in a "Multi-Multiverse." It stands to reason that whatever Manhattan did to Earth-Zero at the Flashpoint altered the other Earths as well, and that the post-Reborn and Doomsday Clock changes will also affect the other Earths in the "local" Multiverse.

[FishyZombie]

The ending of Convergence restored an infinite Multiverse. Morrison, who had conceptual input on the Convergence storyline, said that the 52 Earths of Multiversity (which include the current DCU) are just one of infinite orreries in a "Multi-Multiverse." It stands to reason that whatever Manhattan did to Earth-Zero at the Flashpoint altered the other Earths as well, and that the post-Reborn and Doomsday Clock changes will also affect the other Earths in the "local" Multiverse.

Edit: jk, I understand, more or less, just wanted an excuse to post a gif. Finally figured out how to post gifs here.

[Myskin]

Is there any source which confirms that Morrison had conceptual input on Convergence?

[Super4Ever]

I'm not going to use spoiler tags since the title of this page literally says spoilers. This is the only forum I go to where people do that. Anyway...

It makes some sense so far that it's Jor-El, at least a twisted one. He as access to the fortress computers. He destroyed a statue of the Kents, his son's "fake" parents. Back in the New 52 when he said he taught Clark, well, we've seen plenty of continuities where Kal and Jor have met, plus the A.I. of Jor-El at the fortress.

My only question is about his motives that Bleeding Cool reported on, that his goal is to unite all of the Kals across the Multiverse. The only benefit I can see from that for DC is that all Superman stories have happened to a degree, like Morrison did with Batman. However, we just got a new, unified history for Superman, would they really risk changing it again?