SDCC 2017 the future of Vertigo

[Timothy Hunter]

https://www.newsarama.com/35611-are-...returning.html

In the Newsarama article, reporting the Vertigo panel, it stated that there were special images created for an event celebrating Vertigo's 25th anniversary.

What could this mean?

Does this mean Vertigo is bringing back the Sandman and Invisibles brands without the original creators?

(I'm assuming that is the case because Neil Gaiman has claimed time and time again that he will not write a story featuring Dream ever again, and I suspect Morrison would not write a new Invisibles story, because he never mentioned any new projects at Vertigo when he discussed the comics he was currently planning to write at DC in interviews.)

[Lee Stone]

I'm sorry...

First nail: The loss of Karen Berger (really counts as two nails, as it was originally her baby)
Second nail: The New52 merging, which left Vertigo with only creator-owned titles and stripped it of what it was initially built on
Third nail: The loss of Shelly Bond
Fourth nail: Image comics' new direction, following the success of Walking Dead and Saga, took over half of Vertigo's market
Fifth nail: Young Animal, with its emphasis on 'weird and quirky takes on obscure DC characters, took over the other half
Sixth nail: No star power. Morrison's moved on to Heavy Metal and does more 'important' event type books for DC now (when he does), Matt Wagner's moved on, Peter Milligan's moved on, Neil Gaiman's barely around and when he is it's for a high profile Sandman hardcover at best. And the creators DC does have, that could possibly be used, are being used instead at Young Animal at Dark Matter.

I just don't see what Vertigo would have to offer now.

Btw... don't get me wrong...
I loved Vertigo. Especially the first few years where it was less creator-owned titles and more offbeat and mystical DC characters.
But if Vertigo was to come back to the same level it was back then, they'd have to:
A. re-brand Young Animal as part of Vertigo
B. give creators a reason to bring their work to Vertigo instead of Image or Dark Horse.

And possibly,
C. offer Grant Morrison or Neil Gaiman the editor position, or try to get Berger or Bond back.

[Timothy Hunter]

I'm sorry...

First nail: The loss of Karen Berger (really counts as two nails, as it was originally her baby)
Second nail: The New52 merging, which left Vertigo with only creator-owned titles and stripped it of what it was initially built on
Third nail: The loss of Shelly Bond
Fourth nail: Image comics' new direction, following the success of Walking Dead and Saga, took over half of Vertigo's market
Fifth nail: Young Animal, with its emphasis on 'weird and quirky takes on obscure DC characters, took over the other half
Sixth nail: No star power. Morrison's moved on to Heavy Metal and does more 'important' event type books for DC now (when he does), Matt Wagner's moved on, Peter Milligan's moved on, Neil Gaiman's barely around and when he is it's for a high profile Sandman hardcover at best. And the creators DC does have, that could possibly be used, are being used instead at Young Animal at Dark Matter.

I just don't see what Vertigo would have to offer now.

Btw... don't get me wrong...
I loved Vertigo. Especially the first few years where it was less creator-owned titles and more offbeat and mystical DC characters.
But if Vertigo was to come back to the same level it was back then, they'd have to:
A. re-brand Young Animal as part of Vertigo
B. give creators a reason to bring their work to Vertigo instead of Image or Dark Horse.

And possibly,
C. offer Grant Morrison or Neil Gaiman the editor position, or try to get Berger or Bond back.

I know Shelly Bond was a well loved figure in the industry, and her being fired caused universal outrage, but why would you want Bond back? I think we no too little about her situation with the DC Comics company to sympathize with her, there's a likely chance she would've been successful as the head of Vertigo, but due to editorial interference she faltered, but there's an equally likely chance in retrospect she just didn't do a good job taking over after Karen Berger.

[Lee Stone]

I know Shelly Bond was a well loved figure in the industry, and her being fired cause universal outrage, but why would you want Bond back? I think we no too little about her situation with the DC Comics company to sympathize with her, there's a likely chance she would've been successful as the head of Vertigo, but due to editorial interference she faltered, but there's an equally likely chance in retrospect she just didn't do a good job taking over after Karen Berger.

Well, aside from Morrison, I don't think DC really had/has anyone that could fully fill Berger's shoes.
I think Bond just kinda gets a pass because she had been a part of Vertigo since near the beginning and worked closely with Berger, thus ensuring the 'Vertigo feel' that Berger laid the foundation for would still resonate.

[Tetragrammar]

Seeing that date 80818 got me excited. Seeing new Sandman and Invisibles art got me excited. I just don't know what I'm excited for. For Vertigo's 25th anniversary I hope there's big plans. Now, here's hoping, fingers crossed its more Sandman stuff with good old Neil digging around in his endless toybox. He's mentioned in the past there was a Delirium story he would potentially in time to get around to telling. So...could that be? As for new Invisibles material I doubt it, since the series is in and of itself complete, but that Lemire art, I like it.

I read maybe a year ago that there were some more Sandman Universe titles planned...could this be it?

When it comes to Vertigo now, I agree with the previous post, Young Animal fills my needs for what I used to love in Vertigo, quirky, heady, meatier spins on not-so known DC properties. And I have that in spades with the new Doom Patrol. As for Vertigo itself, in my ideal world, I would love to see a resurgence of titles of that shared corner with potentially another Hellblazer, Books of Magic, more Gaiman-penned Sandman and other Sandman spinoffs.

[Timothy Hunter]

Seeing that date 80818 got me excited. Seeing new Sandman and Invisibles art got me excited. I just don't know what I'm excited for. For Vertigo's 25th anniversary I hope there's big plans. Now, here's hoping, fingers crossed its more Sandman stuff with good old Neil digging around in his endless toybox. He's mentioned in the past there was a Delirium story he would potentially in time to get around to telling. So...could that be? As for new Invisibles material I doubt it, since the series is in and of itself complete, but that Lemire art, I like it.

While I do truly think that what Vertigo is hinting on planning to do, is pathetic and petty, solely relying on cheap nostalgia to sell comics, thus making Vertigo seem even more irrelevant, I will definitely be willing to buy these titles, but I'm going to have to wait for the creative teams, like I'm sure if they want Vertigo to succeed it would make sense for them to hire reasonably popular comic creators for 2018 event, but I think the worst case scenario would be if these titles, or events or one shots would not be faithful to their source material, like for example, they have a Geoff Johns penned and Jim Lee pencils Sandman revival, and they make it really edgy and action packed or something cringy like that. (That is what the 2016, Holly Black as writer, revival of Lucifer came off to me as.

As for Vertigo itself, in my ideal world, I would love to see a resurgence of titles of that shared corner with potentially another Hellblazer, Books of Magic.

Well, I think that John Constantine's (The Vertigo John Constantine, that is) story ended in Hellblazer #300, he sort of, more or less, died in that issue, it was a perfectly resolute ending for that character. Also even if you were to bring back the Vertigo John Constantine, he ages in real time, unlike most comic book characters, so he would be around 70 or 80 at this point, and I think that would just be a little weird.

I would absolutely love another Books of Magic comic, it's one of my favorite comic books I have ever read, it's just an absolutely wonderful series, but I would only read if it was in continuity with the ongoing Books of Magic series and Hunter: The Age of Magic, not just the miniseries written by Neil Gaiman.

[Tetragrammar]

Were you a fan of Books of Magick: Life During Wartime?

[Powertool]

I'm sorry...
Second nail: The New52 merging, which left Vertigo with only creator-owned titles and stripped it of what it was initially built on

Soooo... Hellblazer (which had a proper conclusion with issue #300) and nothing else, am I right?

Animal Man? Never really apart from the main DC continuity.
Doom Patrol? Several non-Vertigo DC series way before 2011.
Shade the Changing Man? Ended in the mid-Nineties.
Swamp Thing? It had a long and successful career as a main continuity DC character. Why should it have transitioned to Vertigo?
Enigma? Never supposed to be a lasting franchise.
The Sandman? Without Neil Gaiman at writing duties, I'm not really interested. Let alone that Overture (published from 2013 to 2015) is unmistakably labelled as a Vertigo book.

Vertigo was originally built on those seven series. I don't understand what you're trying to suggest.

[Timothy Hunter]

I think everyone on this thread assumes that everything shown at Comic-Con will be a news series, but I also think it is plausible most of the classic creator owned titles (they appear) to be resurrecting, could just be a one shot, like those 100th anniversary Jack Kirby specials, because many of these series, really had a resolute ending with a bow wrapped on top, leaving no room for any future stories, so I would only expect a new ongoing American Vampire series, that American Way series, possibly a new Sandman ongoing spinoff, probably not written by Gaiman.

By the way, does anyone think it's more likely they'll bring the original creators of these properties back for writing duties, or will they simply just hire new writers?

[Timothy Hunter]

Lee Stone: I'm sorry...
Second nail: The New52 merging, which left Vertigo with only creator-owned titles and stripped it of what it was initially built on

Powertool: Soooo... Hellblazer (which had a proper conclusion with issue #300) and nothing else, am I right?

Animal Man? Never really apart from the main DC continuity.
Doom Patrol? Several non-Vertigo DC series way before 2011.
Shade the Changing Man? Ended in the mid-Nineties.
Swamp Thing? It had a long and successful career as a main continuity DC character. Why should it have transitioned to Vertigo?
Enigma? Never supposed to be a lasting franchise.
The Sandman? Without Neil Gaiman at writing duties, I'm not really interested. Let alone that Overture (published from 2013 to 2015) is unmistakably labelled as a Vertigo book.

Vertigo was originally built on those seven series. I don't understand what you're trying to suggest.

Yeah, I'm confused too. The majority of Vertigo's most iconic and successful titles are creator owned.In fact, most Vertigo series starring DC characters are failures. When people think up of the most famous Vertigo titles they think Preacher, Y the Last Man, Fables, 100 Bullets Transmetropolitan, Scalped, DMZ... all creator owned titles, sure people will mention Sandman (Which to be fair, is probably the most famous of them all), Lucifer, and Hellblazer, possibly Shade the Changing Man, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, Neil Gaiman's Black Orchid and Books of Magic, and Grant Morrison's runs on Animal Man and Doom Patrol, but people tend to disassociate The Sandman and Lucifer from the main DC Universe, and Hellblazer and Shade the Changing Man are more comic books with a cult following, and many people forget that Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, Morrison Doom Patrol, and Morrison Animal Man, were not actually under the Vertigo banner.

Truth is, the actual Vertigo versions of Swamp Thing (Nancy A Collins & Mark Millar, Brian K Vaughan, Andy Diggle, Joshua Dysart) , Doom Patrol (Rachael Pollack), Animal Man (Jamie Delano & Jerry Prosser), Books of Magic (John Ney Rieber, Peter Gross, & Dylan Horrocks, Si Spencer), and Black Orchid (Dick Foreman), many were quickly cancelled once they had the Vertigo logo stamped on their cover, some sold well, but all were quickly forgotten.

[Lee Stone]

Soooo... Hellblazer (which had a proper conclusion with issue #300) and nothing else, am I right?

Animal Man? Never really apart from the main DC continuity.
Doom Patrol? Several non-Vertigo DC series way before 2011.
Shade the Changing Man? Ended in the mid-Nineties.
Swamp Thing? It had a long and successful career as a main continuity DC character. Why should it have transitioned to Vertigo?
Enigma? Never supposed to be a lasting franchise.
The Sandman? Without Neil Gaiman at writing duties, I'm not really interested. Let alone that Overture (published from 2013 to 2015) is unmistakably labelled as a Vertigo book.

Vertigo was originally built on those seven series. I don't understand what you're trying to suggest.

I guess I'm pining for early Vertigo, where the creators were mostly crerebral, the characters were mostly obscure DC properties living on the fringe and the stories left you with an uneasy feeling that was part existential and part lucid.
The later Vertigo that focused more on creator-owned stuff didn't feel like it had a solid enough identity to me.

Karen Berger Era Vertigo, from Swamp Thing #20 to Hellblazer #300 Appreciation

I did like 100 Bullets, Losers, Jonny Double and Human Target, btw, which (aside from Jonny Double and Human Target) were more original creations. But at the time I was also big on Tarantino, the Sopranos, Bendis Daredevil, Brubaker Catwoman and Gotham Central.

[friendly-fire-press]

I'd say, judging by the info provided, it's very likely they'll have a go at renewing Invisibles and Sandman with different creators and see what happens.

[Timothy Hunter]

I'd say, judging by the info provided, it's very likely they'll have a go at renewing Invisibles and Sandman with different creators and see what happens.

I'm actually fine with having a Sandman series written by someone else*, as long as it's good, and there is a reasonable chance that this hypothetical Sandman will be good, despite the probable non-Gaiman writer, because it has been done before. Surprisingly The Sandman is a brand that, in my opinion lends itself very well to having multiple writers over the years.

Despite this, I don't really like the idea of a non-Morrison penned Invisibles. The Invisibles is a cracked out nightmare only Grant Morrison can deliver, and I think that if another writer was writing a sequel to Morrison's Invisibles, I think it's too easy to imagine a writer trying too hard to capture the lunacy and feel of Morrison's Invisibles.

[Timothy Hunter]

I'm actually fine with having a Sandman series written by someone else*, as long as it's good, and there is a reasonable chance that this hypothetical Sandman will be good, despite the probable non-Gaiman writer, because it has been done before. Surprisingly The Sandman is a brand that, in my opinion lends itself very well to having multiple writers over the years.

Despite this, I don't really like the idea of a non-Morrison penned Invisibles. The Invisibles is a cracked out nightmare only Grant Morrison can deliver, and I think that if another writer was writing a sequel to Morrison's Invisibles, I think it's too easy to imagine a writer trying too hard to capture the lunacy and feel of Morrison's Invisibles.

Were you a fan of Books of Magick: Life During Wartime?

Why do you ask? And actually, no I haven't read it... yet, but I will soon. I've heard mixed things. Also I believe it's non-canon, an alternate take on Tim Hunter, but I could be wrong.

[Tetragrammar]

You mentioned you liked the other runs of Tim Hunter. So I was curious how you thought Life During Wartime stacked up with those series. I loved it. It's non-canon, true, but I found towards the end of the series that it could fit in with continuity. Don't want to spoil anything here. There are some changes but I also feel those could be addressed as stuff that could've happened between series.