BRAND NEW DAY: Good, Bad or just Mediocre?

[Timmyb52]

If that's the case then, why does ASM seem to stay at the top of the sales lists? While I do subscribe to some extent to the school of thought that Spider-Man's inherent popularity will keep it in the red even if the current direction is not a popular one, there does reach a point where it is a legitimate question to ask: "Are we who feel that OMD was never a good idea and that Dan Slott made it worse with a garbage run really in the majority? Is it possible that post-OMD ASM is well liked by most readers and we're just assuming that most people think like we do?"

I think it is almost impossible for us to determine with 100 percent accuracy whether it is the Anti-OMD or Pro-OMD crowd in the majority in these considerations...personally I feel that the current disgruntled fans in regards to Amazing are of a mixed lot and that the main issue is that the character himself has been purposely made to look inferior to the new characters such as Miles,etc. This in turn is causing a massive dissatisfaction with Marvel as a whole who seem to believe in pushing the classic characters down in order to raise up the new ones. There are many reasons why people are unhappy with Amazing and Marvel in general at this moment in time and it's all generating a negative reaction. The big one is that Marvel refuses to listen to the fans...and that is really hurting their image and sells IMHO.
ASM is not at the Top Ten of the sells charts at all and is now down in the 20's, and it hasn't been in the Top Ten has since issue # 25, which was artificially boosted by variants and sells incentives...after that it has quickly and progressively kept falling and losing sales and readership. That 10 dollar cash grab turned a lot of people off the character that they had already determined was no longer of interest to them. I have seen this at my own local comic shop where many dropped Amazing from their pull lists after that stunt and they have not returned to the title.
I admit that even though many of us have an Anti-OMD bias and do not like the current direction of the title it can not hide the fact that Amazing is losing readers and sells at a disturbing rate that hints very strongly that the book is in trouble if numbers cannot be brought back up...and it must do it consistently and not just on an issue to issue basis with gimmicks and sells incentives on certain issues...then Marvel will have to make serious changes in the hopes of bringing disgruntled fans back to the book as quickly as possible.
So...whether one is Anti-OMD or Pro-OMD doesn't matter... the reality is that readers are turning away from the book in large numbers month to month and that something is wrong with the book.Not only are people turning away from Amazing but they also appear to be turning away from Marvel itself.

[Bor]

OK...the collected editions are based on the success or failure of the floppies they are collected from and cannot be reasonably evaluated in the context of determining the monthly floppie market and the industries sales in that general area since they come out many months after the floppies. When trying to make a determination of the floppie market itself and how well that market is doing on a month to month basis and not the market as a whole it is best to discount this factor in our research of that area.Without the floppies you cannot have the collected editions that come out later and which cannot be added to sales determinations that are being made on current issues of a title to determine the current health of that book IMO.

No I disgree woth this. When trying to determine how the market is doing you can not just ignore certain factors because it does not fit with what you perception is and that is what you are doing here. The collected editons matters because they make up part of sale sfor different titles and in come cases, mostly Image or other publishers but it does happen woth Marvel to, these added sales are what keeps the title alive.
Yes...digital sales can be added into those calculations because they are also a true representation of the floppie market on a monthly basis.
Bor...I am not in disagreement with you when it comes to evaluating the health of the industry as a whole by factoring in all sales.
Then why act completely rude and say that I am asking for my opinion to be stated as fact when all I asked was not to ignore pther factors? Its baffeling really to me.

However, we are not determining the health of the industry taken as a whole but trying to determine its current individual floppie sales health and whether or not it is in a strong or weak state.
And that is exactly the problem. Ignoring other things to make a pont about how certain titles are doing is being ignorant and obtuse about how the industry works on purpose.
I would love to be able to factor in digital sales but we don't have access to that data in order to add it to the monthly Comicchron numbers in regards to the monthly floppie market...sadly, all we have is Diamonds numbers.
The miscommunication on my end came from the misunderstanding that we are arguing the health of the industry as it concerns its monthly floppie sales individually and not in the industries sales as a whole {with collected editions added in}...I'm only trying to determine the health of the floppie market and not the TPB market which is separate from the floppie market.
Then I dont see why you would continue to argue that when it was made clear several times. It really feels like you do not read what you are responing to in some cases.
Are the digital sales higher than they were in previous years? Maybe they are and maybe they are not since this again is a claim being made with no access to hard data...it basically leaves me having to take the industries word for it...the same industry which refuses to share that data.
Again if you actually think sales are the same digitaly now as 16 years ago I dont know what to tell you except that you apparently think every creator, editor and company is lying. Up form last year? Maybe not. But from 16 years ago when/ doing JMS's run in the title? Thats like saying you dont think tv sales are up from 1950. If you dont think digital sales are from then that shows a lack of basic undestanding of the industry and what very very very smal presence digital comics had at the time.
I apologized after Masked Guy recognized the misunderstanding and added my comment in order to make it more clearer that I was arguing from the state of studying just the floppie market and not the market as a whole.
I hope that clears up my position and I agree with you that in studying the market as a whole and determining its health that all factors should be recognized.

Thats fine and all but still does not change much.

[Bor]

Amazing Spider-Man actually hasn't been selling that greatly lately (pardon the rhyme). Two issues were released in June and neither managed to crack the 60,000 mark.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-06.html

Yet one was still one of the best selling titles from Marvel. Even more so if you ignore number 1s and event comics. That in itself could be a indication that apparent loss of readers for single issues is not just unhappiness with ASM but also with Marvel in general. Seing spetacular so high is fine, but we all know its going to drop sooner rather then later. Personaly I will take almost anything from Slott over the first few issues of that title. Talking about a title not living up to my hopes this is a prime example.

[Masked Guy]

Yet one was still one of the best selling titles from Marvel. Even more so if you ignore number 1s and event comics. That in itself could be a indication that apparent loss of readers for single issues is not just unhappiness with ASM but also with Marvel in general. Seing spetacular so high is fine, but we all know its going to drop sooner rather then later. Personaly I will take almost anything from Slott over the first few issues of that title. Talking about a title not living up to my hopes this is a prime example.

I would regretfully have to agree with that statement. As much as I've disliked Slott's work for the past three years (excluding the excellent Renew Your Vows mini-series), Zdarsky's stint on the character has been near-painful so far...and he's only written two issues.

[Bor]

I would regretfully have to agree with that statement. As much as I've disliked Slott's work for the past three years (excluding the excellent Renew Your Vows mini-series), Zdarsky's stint on the character has been near-painful so far...and he's only written two issues.

Which is a darn shame because I have enjoyed some of his work on other titles before but this just feels so hollow to me. I am curious to see the numbers for the next few issues because I have a hard time seeing this sell even as much as 1/5 of its number one by issue 7 unless something changes.

[ViewtifulJC]

IDK why I thought this this thread was gonna be good. Its just reguguitating the same BS anti-OMD people have said for 10 years. Something something sales chart something something M A R Y J A N E something something immature something something deal with devil something something. Rinse and repeat for the rest of your freakin' lives.

[plasticman101]

IDK why I thought this this thread was gonna be good. Its just reguguitating the same BS anti-OMD people have said for 10 years. Something something sales chart something something M A R Y J A N E something something immature something something deal with devil something something. Rinse and repeat for the rest of your freakin' lives posted by viewtifulJC

AMEN!

[Mister Mets]

They use Batman as the index for comic sales, he's THAT consistent.

From my understanding, Batman's high sales status is a bit of a problem for people calculating sales. It's a bit more chaotic when Batman is at the top of the sales charts (as it was under Loeb/ Lee, Morrison, Snyder and King) than when it was a consistent seller, but not a monster hit.

[Masked Guy]

Which is a darn shame because I have enjoyed some of his work on other titles before but this just feels so hollow to me. I am curious to see the numbers for the next few issues because I have a hard time seeing this sell even as much as 1/5 of its number one by issue 7 unless something changes.

I'm really hoping that Zdarsky's writing on the series improves because I can't see it lasting all that long if this keeps up. We'll see what happens though.

[Masked Guy]

IDK why I thought this this thread was gonna be good. Its just reguguitating the same BS anti-OMD people have said for 10 years. Something something sales chart something something M A R Y J A N E something something immature something something deal with devil something something. Rinse and repeat for the rest of your freakin' lives.

I'm actually regretful over that. I never intended for this thread to devolve into a debate about One More Day's ramifications and the current state of Marvel when I started it, but that is where the topic ultimately led. Instead of redirecting the discussion back to the original topic, I ended up further derailing it because that seemed to be what people wanted to talk about. At this point, I would honestly like to get back to the topic at hand.

It is rather interesting that a story like One More Day still has the ability to stir up so much controversy and debate among fans (myself definitely included) a decade later.

[Starrius]

I'm actually regretful over that. I never intended for this thread to devolve into a debate about One More Day's ramifications and the current state of Marvel when I started it, but that is where the topic ultimately led. Instead of redirecting the discussion back to the original topic, I ended up further derailing it because that seemed to be what people wanted to talk about. At this point, I would honestly like to get back to the topic at hand.

It is rather interesting that a story like One More Day still has the ability to stir up so much controversy and debate among fans (myself definitely included) a decade later.

I agree. I am one of those that hated One More Day so much that I have problems reading the current Amazing Spider-Man comics. I have liked the Peter-MJ couple since the 1970s.
I have avoided expressing my thoughts about this stuff because I didn't want to get into an unnecessary debate or argument about it.

After 10 years of no Peter-Mary Jane relationship, I am fed up. I have been reading the old Spider-Man comics including especially the marriage years (I really like Mary Jane stuck with Peter even though he was thought to be a clone during the Clone Saga..especially helping him overcome the Jackal's hold on Peter in Time Bomb), and it reminds me of how much I miss Peter and Mary Jane relationship. Renew Your Vows ongoing series has satisfy me a little.

That's why I decided to create a page for those that favor the Spider-Marriage and a middle finger to Marvel.
https://www.facebook.com/SpiderManMaryJane

[WeirdSpider]

It is rather interesting that a story like One More Day still has the ability to stir up so much controversy and debate among fans (myself definitely included) a decade later.

I don't find it all that surprising that One More Day still has the ability to upset people. It's a really shitty story that's really damaging to both the character, the brand, and to continuity itself.

There's really no reason for fans to care about the characters and continuity if it can be thrown out the window at the drop of a hat.

[Masked Guy]

I agree. I am one of those that hated One More Day so much that I have problems reading the current Amazing Spider-Man comics. I have liked the Peter-MJ couple since the 1970s.
I have avoided expressing my thoughts about this stuff because I didn't want to get into an unnecessary debate or argument about it.

After 10 years of no Peter-Mary Jane relationship, I am fed up. I have been reading the old Spider-Man comics including especially the marriage years (I really like Mary Jane stuck with Peter even though he was thought to be a clone during the Clone Saga..especially helping him overcome the Jackal's hold on Peter in Time Bomb), and it reminds me of how much I miss Peter and Mary Jane relationship. Renew Your Vows ongoing series has satisfy me a little.

That's why I decided to create a page for those that favor the Spider-Marriage and a middle finger to Marvel.
https://www.facebook.com/SpiderManMaryJane

Renew Your Vows is the only Spider-Man series that I currently like.

[Masked Guy]

I don't find it all that surprising that One More Day still has the ability to upset people. It's a really shitty story that's really damaging to both the character, the brand, and to continuity itself.

There's really no reason for fans to care about the characters and continuity if it can be thrown out the window at the drop of a hat.

I said "interesting", not "surprising". I'm in full agreement with how terrible One More Day is; it's just remarkable how much frustration it still invokes in people after nearly ten years. Just goes to show how bad that story really is I suppose.

[Timmyb52]

Thats fine and all but still does not change much.

If a TPB comes out after many months of a current titles floppies monthly release how does this help that current titles floppie sales? How does the sale of a TPB collecting a past arc help the sales of a current monthly floppies arc?
How does it add to the numbers reported on that titles sales for the month? For example...if a TPB of a past Amazing arc sells well...while the current monthly floppie arc is selling poorly...how does this help the sales of that current floppie?
TPB's are a separate market consideration in evaluating monthly title floppie sales because they add nothing to the present sales of that floppie.
You can't take the sales of a monthly floppie and then add a past TPB collection to those present monthly floppie sales numbers...they are two separate markets!
You are arguing from the perspective of determining the market as a whole {TPB's,digital,floppies,toys,clothing,etc.}...I'm trying to determine only the floppie market from month to month.
I am not ignoring other factors...I am simply trying to determine the health of the monthly floppie market with the data we are given. Digital sales records are basically non-existent and there is nothing there to add to the Comicchron numbers.How can I be ignoring those digital factors when there is nothing there to factor in?
Even Comicchron and other people who study the monthly floppie sales do not factor in TPB's because they are basically considered a collection of back issues of a current title and have no impact upon the sales of a current monthly floppie. You are asking us to add the TPB's sales to those of a monthly floppies sales... and it makes no sense...because that is just trying to add and artificially boost current floppie sales numbers.
Again...how does the sell of Kravens Last Hunt TPB add to the monthly sales numbers for Amazing # 30? They don't! They are two separate markets! They are not the same! And just because a current TPB of a current ongoing title sold well does not factor into whether a series or ongoing title will be cancelled or be allowed to continue. Only the monthly floppies sells make those determinations...not TPB's.