Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider #5 Discussion/Spoilers

[JoeWithoutFear]

Just finished reading this issue. It was fine. Here's my extremely sophisticated (sarcasm) breakdown.

The Good
-It's (a version of) the original Scarlet Spider in a comic book! Yay!
-It's got a similar amount of emphasis on action and intrigue as the comics I loved from the 80s/90s eras.

The Bad
-Marvel just can't pen an entire comic book that doesn't try to make some kind of social justice commentary, eh? The bit about the Forbidden City being offensive and the ninjas in it being offensive? ugh. Just stop it, Marvel! Start a new monthly book called Marvel's Soap Box and make the entire thing a social commentary soap box extravaganza! But please leave that stuff out of the comics that I'm trying to read for fun. If I want serious, guilt-laden stuff, we all know better and more appropriate places to find it.

The Hopes for the Future
-I'm still not fully on board with this approach to Ben's character. I don't understand why Marvel refuses to just give fans of certain characters what they want. Like "hey! Captain America is young again! .... bee tee dubbs, he's a nazi! You're welcome!" "Hey! Ben Reilly is back! Don't worry, we ditched his iconic suit that you all love and made him evil!! .... oh you really want that suit? OK, fine, but he stays a psycho!" I am hoping that something clicks eventually and Ben becomes full hero again. If/when that happens, I also..
-...hope that Ben's face goes back to normal. It's so weird that they fixed Kaine's scars, made him the Scarlet Spider, and then... basically brought back Ben as the new Kaine.... but Kaine has his scars back too, right? Editorial has to clean this up. And...
-... when they do I hope that only Reilly carries the title of "Scarlet Spider." Hopefully here, since it is between two white dudes, no one will accuse me of anything when I say that I can't stand when two (or more) heroes are running around with the same exact name. Make Kaine the "Crimson Spider" or something -- just make them different! But, hey, that's just me. I know that having a half-dozen versions of popular heroes is part of Marvel's shtick these days. Still, I just can't get behind that lack of cohesion and coherency. (And in case anyone's confused, my avatar shows a desire for these heroes to share the spotlight and stand on equal footing -- but I wish Sam was called "Eagle" or something. These days, the heroes just have the same name but are on anything but equal footing.)

=========

Sorry for all the negativity. I want nothing more than to sink my heart and soul into a Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider book. But modern Marvel has just burned me so many times in recent years that it's so hard to muster the optimism and enthusiasm. But I am trying!!

[Pav]

I don't understand why Marvel refuses to just give fans of certain characters what they want.

Sorry for all the negativity. I want nothing more than to sink my heart and soul into a Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider book. But modern Marvel has just burned me so many times in recent years that it's so hard to muster the optimism and enthusiasm. But I am trying!!

I feel strongly that there isn't a bigger fan of Ben Reilly in this world than me, and Marvel is giving me exactly what I want: the execution isn't always 100% flawless, but this is essentially the return of Ben that I always dreamed we would get.

Marvel isn't out to get you, me, or any fans.

Enjoy your comics, friend!

-Pav, who is also loving the Iron Fist comics right now...

[theoneandonly]

maybe fire star seyward , Jessica will also make appearances.

[Pav]

maybe fire star seyward , Jessica will also make appearances.

I'm not a big shipper, but

Scarlet Spider x Firestar forever!

-Pav, who also liked Jessica a lot...

[plasticman101]

I just wish the book sold better and sold well

oh well

since ive seen sales this will more than likely turn into a 12 issue min-series.

[rckstr1253]

Im hoping issue 6 shows bens good intentions. According ri the summary he is trying to save kaines life

[JoeWithoutFear]

I feel strongly that there isn't a bigger fan of Ben Reilly in this world than me, and Marvel is giving me exactly what I want: the execution isn't always 100% flawless, but this is essentially the return of Ben that I always dreamed we would get.

Marvel isn't out to get you, me, or any fans.

Enjoy your comics, friend!

I dunno, I have a Scarlet Spider Pop Vinyl. I think that makes *me* the biggest Ben fan in the world! jk. .... we can share the title, alright? ;-)

But yea, if you're loving the current stuff, by all means, continue to do so!! I'm going to keep trying to get into it and I never want to take away from anyone else's enjoyment. I'm just sharing my thoughts. I don't hate what we're getting, but, if I were Marvel, it wouldn't seem much harder to just give the majority of Ben fans what we were asking for. So, it's like if you asked for a Super Nintendo but were given a Sega Genesis (I'm going to assume you're old enough to get this analogy haha). The Genesis is still awesome! But... it's just not what you were hoping for. *shrug*

Clone Conspiracy was a fine story, but I don't think it was a good way to bring Ben back. Again, I just don't think that's what Ben fans wanted. Imagine if the legions of Kamala fans were told that character was converting to a different religion. Might make for a very compelling story, but I'm sure a lot of fans would be lost because it simply isn't what they wanted to see from that character. Clone Conspiracy was like tearing open that wrapping paper and seeing the Sega logo instead of Nintendo. =\ This series is a continuation of that feeling, so far. Again, not bad, just not what was asked for. You can say that as fans we're acting spoiled, but, like I said with Kamala, I think it would be a common reaction.

I just wish the book sold better and sold well

oh well

since ive seen sales this will more than likely turn into a 12 issue min-series.

Yea, that's no surprise. Even if this book was exactly what the majority of Ben fans wanted, Marvel can't keep much going past 12 issues these days. I don't even think they want to. I think they like launching new #1s with a "big shake-up" every 12-16 months. Some of the exceptions to this rule seem to operate under special circumstances.

[Pav]

I dunno, I have a Scarlet Spider Pop Vinyl. I think that makes *me* the biggest Ben fan in the world! jk. .... we can share the title, alright? ;-)

But yea, if you're loving the current stuff, by all means, continue to do so!! I'm going to keep trying to get into it and I never want to take away from anyone else's enjoyment. I'm just sharing my thoughts. I don't hate what we're getting, but, if I were Marvel, it wouldn't seem much harder to just give the majority of Ben fans what we were asking for. So, it's like if you asked for a Super Nintendo but were given a Sega Genesis (I'm going to assume you're old enough to get this analogy haha). The Genesis is still awesome! But... it's just not what you were hoping for. *shrug*

Clone Conspiracy was a fine story, but I don't think it was a good way to bring Ben back. Again, I just don't think that's what Ben fans wanted. Imagine if the legions of Kamala fans were told that character was converting to a different religion. Might make for a very compelling story, but I'm sure a lot of fans would be lost because it simply isn't what they wanted to see from that character. Clone Conspiracy was like tearing open that wrapping paper and seeing the Sega logo instead of Nintendo. =\ This series is a continuation of that feeling, so far. Again, not bad, just not what was asked for. You can say that as fans we're acting spoiled, but, like I said with Kamala, I think it would be a common reaction.



Yea, that's no surprise. Even if this book was exactly what the majority of Ben fans wanted, Marvel can't keep much going past 12 issues these days. I don't even think they want to. I think they like launching new #1s with a "big shake-up" every 12-16 months. Some of the exceptions to this rule seem to operate under special circumstances.

1. We can definitely share the title! I'll share it with anyone who wants to share it! BUT NOBODY TOPS ME!!!!!!!

2. My only qualm with your post is the phrasing "what Ben fans wanted." Isn't the general rule that those with negative feelings are loudest? Sure, some people don't care for this iteration of Ben, but thousands of people must be enjoying it! The phrasing essentially discounts my own position, even if that's not the intent (and I certainly don't think it was).

3. I agree that Marvel seems content letting a book last a year or so and then giving it a relaunch and/or a new name. I wouldn't be shocked if this title is cancelled in favor of "Scarlet Spiders," for example.

4. Not only do I have an old Toy Biz figure of Ben as the Scarlet Spider (with attachable Carnage symbiote ax) but I also have the set of Clone Saga figures, with the really horrible-looking Kaine and Jackal figures! And Sandman. He was in it for some (no) reason.

5. What's really funny is that, as a kid, I had a Sega Genesis

-Pav, whose favorite game of all-time is Kid Chameleon...

[JoeWithoutFear]

I love numbered responses! Makes it so much easier to have a discussion -- in my opinion.

1. We can definitely share the title! I'll share it with anyone who wants to share it! BUT NOBODY TOPS ME!!!!!!!

I accept!

2. My only qualm with your post is the phrasing "what Ben fans wanted." Isn't the general rule that those with negative feelings are loudest? Sure, some people don't care for this iteration of Ben, but thousands of people must be enjoying it! The phrasing essentially discounts my own position, even if that's not the intent (and I certainly don't think it was).

Yea, I tried not to make it sound that way by saying like "the majority of." Which, even that is an assumption. And truly, I don't know for sure. It was only a guess. Apologies if it came off as a statement of fact, but, it was a statement of my best guess. Even if 99.99999% of Ben fans hate this book, that would not invalidate your love of it. Not in my mind anyway. Cool?

3. I agree that Marvel seems content letting a book last a year or so and then giving it a relaunch and/or a new name. I wouldn't be shocked if this title is cancelled in favor of "Scarlet Spiders," for example.

So you're thinking a book that stars both Ben and Kaine together? That would be super cool. BUT! Like I said before, I can't deal with heroes having the same. exact. name. "Scarlet! Jump!" and then they both jump. One of them jumps avoiding danger, but the other jumps into ... whirling helicopter blades or something ;-) I just can't accept it. Sorry! So, change Kaine to a new name (how about "Kaine?!" lol!) and then we're in business.

4. Not only do I have an old Toy Biz figure of Ben as the Scarlet Spider (with attachable Carnage symbiote ax) but I also have the set of Clone Saga figures, with the really horrible-looking Kaine and Jackal figures! And Sandman. He was in it for some (no) reason.

OK, you're probably a bigger fan than me =\ But I insist on sharing the title! =P I recently started buying all the Clone Saga (five volumes) and Ben Reilly (six volumes) collections. So far I have 1-5 of CS and 1-4 of BR. Volumes 5 and 6 of BR are out of print so they're super expensive at the moment. =\ I'm hoping they do another print of them soon like they recently did with volume 5 of the CS collection.

5. What's really funny is that, as a kid, I had a Sega Genesis

Me too! ;-) ... and a 32X O_o

-Pav, whose favorite game of all-time is Kid Chameleon...

Never played it. Heard good things though.

[Kurolegacy]

Yea, that's no surprise. Even if this book was exactly what the majority of Ben fans wanted, Marvel can't keep much going past 12 issues these days. I don't even think they want to. I think they like launching new #1s with a "big shake-up" every 12-16 months. Some of the exceptions to this rule seem to operate under special circumstances.

Honestly that's one thing with Marvel that annoys me, a book like America sells terribly yet they continue to put it out month after month yet a book like Scarlet Spider can be doing better than it every month yet somehow still get canceled. It just ends up feeling like a gross double standard on their part. But who knows? PAD is a pretty big name at Marvel and they kept Spider-Man 2099 going for quite a while despite its sales dropping off bit by bit so who knows?

[SensationalSean]

I'm no expert, bu this book seems to be doing okay in terms of sales:

#1 - 53,240

#2 - 29,501

#3 - 27,053

#4 - 23,939

What's the cancellation threshold?

[Vworp Vworp]

I'm no expert, bu this book seems to be doing okay in terms of sales:

#1 - 53,240

#2 - 29,501

#3 - 27,053

#4 - 23,939

What's the cancellation threshold?

It can vary but once a book goes under 20K, it's probably going to be touch and go.

It all depends on where SS levels out. Presumably the decline will slow down soon. I'd figure by now, anyone who is still buying Not-Ben's book is in it for the haul.

[plasticman101]

#1 - 53,240

#2 - 29,501

#3 - 27,053

#4 - 23,939
wow! that's abysmal numbers!

the 4th issue SHOUDN"T be selling only a piffle 24,000 ... and a downward turn is never good.

I feel bad for the ben readers, even Legacy isn't going to UP-TICK numbers on any of the lower sellers...I'm mean if nothing changes in your line-up and you STILL have the same writers & artists on the same books means the EXACTLY the same sales as before.

I can't believe MARVEL views THIS as success!!! no comics if done right with a good writer and artist should be even NEAR the cellar, but a large portion of marvel is.

DC has some there too! but they are killing it & destroying marvel right now. they apologized with rebirth! 95% of my pull list is DC

[classicgmer]

I'm no expert, bu this book seems to be doing okay in terms of sales:

#1 - 53,240

#2 - 29,501

#3 - 27,053

#4 - 23,939

What's the cancellation threshold?

Probably a discussion that should be held in the sales thread but to me when you consider the fact that this is a book that's starring the primary antagonist from the last big Spider-man event and that it was given two rather well known and well respected industry vets in PAD & Bagley to me the title is underperforming big time.


Not that it's the only book to see these types of results but i figured the title would manage to do a bit better than this.

[Mister Mets]

I'm no expert, bu this book seems to be doing okay in terms of sales:

#1 - 53,240

#2 - 29,501

#3 - 27,053

#4 - 23,939

What's the cancellation threshold?

20,000 is seen as the threshhold. One thing in the title's favor is the relatively mild second issue drop.