Do you see DC bringing back Bart and Kon or sticking with NuWally and Jon?

[Sacred Knight]

Kon got messed up originally when Johns got a hold of him. He was bad all the way up until his death and return, where at least some attempt was made to fix him, but this came near the end of the pre-FP era anyway so it didn't last long. The New 52 concept started out great. Lobdell was actually setting up some great things. Had he kept things simple, it could have ended up his best work in a long time. ..then the stupid Harvest stuff happened. Then DeFalco happened. Then the coup de grace was the reveal of his official, totally convoluted origin.

[Nick Miller]

No, not a knock at all.

Many of my own favourite series feature C/D/E level characters where the writers and artists have specific tales in mind, and relative freedom to use the characters as they see fit.

Obvious examples: Hitman and the Jack Knight Starman. Both leads in wonderful series...and both characters where I treasure idea that original writers (Garth Ennis and James Robinson) may sometime add brief extra tales, but where I'd "fear" what might happen if other writers were let loose on the characters.

Now mister miracle, with King.

I agree with everything you said Jackdaw.

[stephens2177]

Kon got messed up originally when Johns got a hold of him. He was bad all the way up until his death and return, where at least some attempt was made to fix him, but this came near the end of the pre-FP era anyway so it didn't last long. The New 52 concept started out great. Lobdell was actually setting up some great things. Had he kept things simple, it could have ended up his best work in a long time. ..then the stupid Harvest stuff happened. Then DeFalco happened. Then the coup de grace was the reveal of his official, totally convoluted origin.

Yeah if Geoff just didnt change Kon to suit his own fanboy desires,and instead just tried to make the changes work with what has come before things would have worked out smoother.

Hey sacred what iyo could Geoff have done to make it smoother(u know I have my ideals,but wanted to hear other ideas)?

[Assam]

Bart just got bad in the New 52 but I am not as well versed with him.

False. Like Kon, Johns screwed him royally, taking away everything amazing that made him unique.

Yeah if Geoff just didnt change Kon to suit his own fanboy desires,and instead just tried to make the changes work with what has come before things would have worked out smoother.

Hey sacred what iyo could Geoff have done to make it smoother(u know I have my ideals,but wanted to hear other ideas)?

I personally don't feel anything could have been done to make it work. It was not the next step in character growth. It was LITERALLY Johns canonizing his fanfiction. Same thing goes for all the members of the YJ4. Johns replaced them all with bodysnatchers.

[Bigmanbud]

I'd prefer they bring back Bart and Kon, and get rid of Jon and NuWally.

Super Sons and 2 Wallys are things I don't see lasting through the decades.

Perhaps they could merge them somehow like with Superman.

[Assam]

I'd prefer they bring back Bart and Kon, and get rid of Jon and NuWally.

Super Sons and 2 Wallys are things I don't see lasting through the decades.

Perhaps they could merge them somehow like with Superman.

Can't say I care about Jon or NuWally at this point, but I don't want them to just be tossed aside.

Definitely don't want a merge either. That wouldn't work at all. With Supes, we basically got to keep Superdad, but he got some Nu52 history. Bart and Kon have nothing to do with these newbies, and just giving them some memories wouldn't make sense.

[Godlike13]

They can do whatever with new Wally, but Jon is awesome. One of the best things to come out of the Superman books in a while, and I know some aren't gonna like this but he has been a far more enjoyable Superboy then Conner has been in years. Which is not a slight on Conner but more about the quality of work Conner has seen these past years.

[married guy]

I would LOVE to see both Barry and Conner return to the DCU.
That said, I doubt I will see it any time soon. Especially Bart (as Impulse).
The stink of Bar Tor is still yet to fade, and TPTB at DC seem adverse to giving any speedster other than Barry any real effort.

[married guy]

By the way, I don't think Geoff Johns was behind the change of Bart from Impulse to Kid Flash.
Mark Waid has said it was a directive from editorial at the time, and I believe Geoff was still just writing for DC at that time.

[Assam]

By the way, I don't think Geoff Johns was behind the change of Bart from Impulse to Kid Flash.
Mark Waid has said it was a directive from editorial at the time, and I believe Geoff was still just writing for DC at that time.

While it WAS DiDio's order to change Bart from Impulse to Kid Flash, Johns was still the writer of the book, and the one who changed his personality so drastically.

[Lightning Rider]

While it WAS DiDio's order to change Bart from Impulse to Kid Flash, Johns was still the writer of the book, and the one who changed his personality so drastically.

Waid on the matter:

WAID: Nah. Listen, Geoff Johns and I made our peace about this. I love Geoff. Geoff's one of my best friends, and Geoff is an incredibly talented writer and is the only writer alive who loves these characters as much as I do. And I don't blame him for paving over the Impulse identity. The shoehorning of Impulse into Kid Flash was, as I understand it, not his idea. It was a wrongheaded edict passed down by an editor that never got the character and has made it his mission to purge DC of anything even remotely fun and lighthearted. But even as Kid Flash, he was still largely recognizable as Bart.

[Assam]

Waid on the matter:

WAID: Nah. Listen, Geoff Johns and I made our peace about this. I love Geoff. Geoff's one of my best friends, and Geoff is an incredibly talented writer and is the only writer alive who loves these characters as much as I do. And I don't blame him for paving over the Impulse identity. The shoehorning of Impulse into Kid Flash was, as I understand it, not his idea. It was a wrongheaded edict passed down by an editor that never got the character and has made it his mission to purge DC of anything even remotely fun and lighthearted. But even as Kid Flash, he was still largely recognizable as Bart.

I've seen that quote before. I blame DiDio just as much ( As I do for most things which have been destroying the DCU for the past 14 years),but I'm not letting Johns off the hook. With all due respect to Mark Waid, I disagree that he was still recognizable as Bart. I think I'd be more inclined to believe that Johns had NOTHING to do with what happened to his personality if he hadn't also warped Kon and Cassie to such a massive degree.

Admittedly, we don't know how much of what happened to Cassie was editorial mandate, and seeing how much of a boy's club DC tends to be, I wouldn't be surprised if we did learn that what was done with her wasn't Johns' idea to begin with.

[Jokerz79]

I've seen that quote before. I blame DiDio just as much ( As I do for most things which have been destroying the DCU for the past 14 years),but I'm not letting Johns off the hook. With all due respect to Mark Waid, I disagree that he was still recognizable as Bart. I think I'd be more inclined to believe that Johns had NOTHING to do with what happened to his personality if he hadn't also warped Kon and Cassie to such a massive degree.

Admittedly, we don't know how much of what happened to Cassie was editorial mandate, and seeing how much of a boy's club DC tends to be, I wouldn't be surprised if we did learn that what was done with her wasn't Johns' idea to begin with.

Good god do I miss Jenette Kahn. Personally I'd love to see classic versions of Bart and Kon/Connor back I loved them back in the day. I'd also love for Kon to develop a brother relationship because I do like Jon a lot. I have no love or hate for New Wally and would just like Bart back as Impulse a descendent of Barry and Iris from the future of they have to tweak it due to Iris and Barry no longer spending time in the future.

[JackDaw]

So every time Geoff J writes a poor comic it's somebody else's fault?

Isn't the reality for last 20 years been that he's so important to DC that he's written who he's wanted to, how he's wanted to, when he's wanted to.

If he had been unhappy at any point...he could have hopped over to Marvel.

[Black Angel]

I honestly can't see a reason why now but hey if theories are right and Superboy prime is making a come back in the doomsday clock event then they kinda are required since they are his arch foes.