Is thete a difference between cyclops and captain americas experiences?

[theoneandonly]

Cyclops was treated on a par with Hitler for trying to save mutants from extinction by establishing their own state both utopia and during AvsX and destroying inhuman cloud that supposedly was an act of terror against the inhumans and treated as a psychotic person by avengers and the like.He made a poor choice of allowing the Phoenix to come and possess hope in order to revive mutant species out of desperation and got poessesed by it himself leading to his downfall. He lost his life as penalty and was granted a ignonimous death although much later. Captain America is trying to save America from itself through facism and is actually in a hiltler like position now more than cyclops ever was as he has thrown all inhumans into concentration camps. Captain America also made a poor decision when he opted to revert back with the cosmic power of kobik as it allowed her to corrupt him much like the pheonix. He however is not dying although maybe we are going to find out that this hydra cap is a cube construct maybe and the real one was sent back to the land of dead the vanishing pont or what not. If he returns and some kind of reset is not performed and everyone remembers secret empire then he will be in the same position that teen cycke is with eveyone considering him Hitler and as the only person who was able to turn america to tyranny. It will be interesting if he can restore his reputation and regain the broken trust unlike cyclops but if he doesn't and is going to turn fugitive and ends up as most wanted though its not likely he will be following cyclops footsteps literally. Your thoughts on the matter? Does there seem a similar trajectory in both their lives?

[Huntsman Spider]

The major difference is that Captain America was still widely beloved, admired, and respected before he was altered by the Cosmic Cube and turned into a loyal deep cover agent of HYDRA against his will, whereas Cyclops had come to be reviled by many of his fellow X-Men for the actions he'd taken and he was also facing an uphill struggle for the survival of a race that most of humanity considered "the enemy" and sought to exterminate. I think Captain America's road to redemption won't be any easier than Cyclops's was, but at the same time, I think Marvel had much more invested in Cyclops as a "fallen hero" and working within that status quo than it would in doing the same to Captain America, especially since Marvel Legacy is supposed to be a period of rebuilding or reconstruction, so having Steve Rogers come to the same ignominious end that Scott Summers did obviously won't be in the cards.

[XPac]

Cyclops was treated on a par with Hitler for trying to save mutants from extinction by establishing their own state both utopia and during AvsX and destroying inhuman cloud that supposedly was an act of terror against the inhumans and treated as a psychotic person by avengers and the like.He made a poor choice of allowing the Phoenix to come and possess hope in order to revive mutant species out of desperation and got poessesed by it himself leading to his downfall. He lost his life as penalty and was granted a ignonimous death although much later. Captain America is trying to save America from itself through facism and is actually in a hiltler like position now more than cyclops ever was as he has thrown all inhumans into concentration camps. Captain America also made a poor decision when he opted to revert back with the cosmic power of kobik as it allowed her to corrupt him much like the pheonix. He however is not dying although maybe we are going to find out that this hydra cap is a cube construct maybe and the real one was sent back to the land of dead the vanishing pont or what not. If he returns and some kind of reset is not performed and everyone remembers secret empire then he will be in the same position that teen cycke is with eveyone considering him Hitler and as the only person who was able to turn america to tyranny. It will be interesting if he can restore his reputation and regain the broken trust unlike cyclops but if he doesn't and is going to turn fugitive and ends up as most wanted though its not likely he will be following cyclops footsteps literally. Your thoughts on the matter? Does there seem a similar trajectory in both their lives?

I think the difference is that Steve will likely allow himself due process and get acquitted or pardoned. That's not to say he will instantly be forgiven by everyone ... but legally at least I think he's willing to work within the system and get cleared.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think the difference is that Steve will likely allow himself due process and get acquitted or pardoned. That's not to say he will instantly be forgiven by everyone ... but legally at least I think he's willing to work within the system and get cleared.

That was the path Cyclops would have taken until the people supposedly granting him due process decided to set him up to be murdered in lockup instead, and he saw another prisoner killed in front of him by some mutant-hating guards. Those two things showed him that "due process" was B.S. when it came to mutants, and even worse, there were more extrajudicial killings of mutants happening throughout the country, so Cyclops was convinced he had no other choice but to break out, not for his own survival, but for the survival of a newly resurgent mutantkind.

[jackolover]

That was the path Cyclops would have taken until the people supposedly granting him due process decided to set him up to be murdered in lockup instead, and he saw another prisoner killed in front of him by some mutant-hating guards. Those two things showed him that "due process" was B.S. when it came to mutants, and even worse, there were more extrajudicial killings of mutants happening throughout the country, so Cyclops was convinced he had no other choice but to break out, not for his own survival, but for the survival of a newly resurgent mutantkind.

So in one case, Steve Rogers, he could own America and depend on due process, to be fair. In the other case, The mutant Cyclops, couldn't own America, or depend on being given a fair go by due process? Are you suggesting mutants are an exception and treated as non-citizens, even though they are processed by the legal system? Why don't they just assassinate arrested mutants? Why go through the prestense of due process? I think what happened to Scott Summers in custody was just anti-mutant bigotry, not the system biased against mutants.

[scribbleMind]

Look, I'm just waiting for Teen Steve to show up and become the only Cap that matters.

[XPac]

So in one case, Steve Rogers, he could own America and depend on due process, to be fair. In the other case, The mutant Cyclops, couldn't own America, or depend on being given a fair go by due process? Are you suggesting mutants are an exception and treated as non-citizens, even though they are processed by the legal system? Why don't they just assassinate arrested mutants? Why go through the prestense of due process? I think what happened to Scott Summers in custody was just anti-mutant bigotry, not the system biased against mutants.

Magneto was found not guilty TWICE in the courts (and he actually IS guitly), so it's not exactly impossible for a mutant to have their day in court. But certainly bigotry exists.

[Huntsman Spider]

So in one case, Steve Rogers, he could own America and depend on due process, to be fair. In the other case, The mutant Cyclops, couldn't own America, or depend on being given a fair go by due process? Are you suggesting mutants are an exception and treated as non-citizens, even though they are processed by the legal system? Why don't they just assassinate arrested mutants? Why go through the prestense of due process? I think what happened to Scott Summers in custody was just anti-mutant bigotry, not the system biased against mutants.

Ok, maybe it wasn't a deliberate assassination attempt, but the justice system in the Marvel Universe America is heavily biased against mutants because mutants are seen and treated as not even human by most people and therefore most authorities, thus not entitled to human and civil rights. There have been numerous instances of mutants being attacked with lethal intent by law enforcement officers solely because they are mutants, with the flimsy pretext of them being alleged to have committed some sort of crime, not to mention that being processed by the legal system is no guarantee, in real life or in fiction, that one will be treated fairly and justly by the legal system. With mutants, if there is a guarantee, it's that they won't be treated fairly by the legal system, because again, the legal system is heavily biased against mutants on the assumption by most people that they're all subhuman or inhuman menaces to society who should be exterminated. True, Magneto was found not guilty when he went through the courts himself, which is incredibly fortunate for him in light of everything he's done, but he is largely an exception, whereas lots of lesser-known mutants never even get the chance for a hearing or a trial.

[jackolover]

Ok, maybe it wasn't a deliberate assassination attempt, but the justice system in the Marvel Universe America is heavily biased against mutants because mutants are seen and treated as not even human by most people and therefore most authorities, thus not entitled to human and civil rights. There have been numerous instances of mutants being attacked with lethal intent by law enforcement officers solely because they are mutants, with the flimsy pretext of them being alleged to have committed some sort of crime, not to mention that being processed by the legal system is no guarantee, in real life or in fiction, that one will be treated fairly and justly by the legal system. With mutants, if there is a guarantee, it's that they won't be treated fairly by the legal system, because again, the legal system is heavily biased against mutants on the assumption by most people that they're all subhuman or inhuman menaces to society who should be exterminated. True, Magneto was found not guilty when he went through the courts himself, which is incredibly fortunate for him in light of everything he's done, but he is largely an exception, whereas lots of lesser-known mutants never even get the chance for a hearing or a trial.

Is this a common conception among readers of the X-Men? Sub-human and Inhuman menaces? I saw the X-Men protecting San Francisco and ordinary citizens cheering and grateful. And no wonder the mutants were given California to make their New Tian, as Californians have a greater affinity to mutants there on the West coast, and live in harmony with mutants there now, otherwise they would flee like refugees.

As for the question of the thread, there is a similarity between Rogers and Summers experience, as they both suffered for their stances. Rogers against Homeland Security, and Summers for his idealist World view in changing the Earth during AvX. I don't know if they could stand for the same thing. Rogers will always be championing the Republic, whereas Summers has no affiliation to that concept. Summers is more after the safe keeping of mutants, as if the mutants were their own country, and that's a problem when mutants already live in a country - America. I think if Summers had stayed with Xavier's dream of fitting in with the ordinary humans, he could maybe stand for the Republic like Rogers. After all, the mutants are a minority and Steve is always looking after the little guy, because that's what the Republic aims for. Everyone.

[dragonmp93]

So in one case, Steve Rogers, he could own America and depend on due process, to be fair. In the other case, The mutant Cyclops, couldn't own America, or depend on being given a fair go by due process? Are you suggesting mutants are an exception and treated as non-citizens, even though they are processed by the legal system? Why don't they just assassinate arrested mutants? Why go through the prestense of due process? I think what happened to Scott Summers in custody was just anti-mutant bigotry, not the system biased against mutants.

And the Sentinel program financed with the tax payer's money ?.

I think the difference is that Steve will likely allow himself due process and get acquitted or pardoned. That's not to say he will instantly be forgiven by everyone ... but legally at least I think he's willing to work within the system and get cleared.

He was almost gutted while the warden and the guards looked the other way; if you dont remember.

Is this a common conception among readers of the X-Men? Sub-human and Inhuman menaces? I saw the X-Men protecting San Francisco and ordinary citizens cheering and grateful. And no wonder the mutants were given California to make their New Tian, as Californians have a greater affinity to mutants there on the West coast, and live in harmony with mutants there now, otherwise they would flee like refugees.

At least on the X-board, yes.

[jackolover]

And the Sentinel program financed with the tax payer's money ?.

If that were truly a government policy, then the mutants would be on the wrong side of an extermination program. The Sentinels are just a safeguard. Nobody is eradicating mutants in America when we saw the 198 were being deliberately preserved.

The Inhumans on the other hand have really ruined their case when they released the Terrigen Mists. I was surprised the government didn't do what Hydra Cap did and put Inhumans in detention. The government just let them get away with that, after Inhumanity. What did they think? That unnaturally making more people with super powers was a normal thing, starting to almost overrun humanity? It was a frightening development world wide. I don't know why they never forced the Inhumans to destroy the mists immediatley Infinity was won.

[roni190]

Scott was justified during the Terrigen cloud crisis and in creating Utopia.... During AVX however he acted EXACTLY the way Hydra-Cap is acting now, he imposed his will on the rest of the world by using force while risking the lives of every man, woman and child on the planet in a gamble that he could control the uncontrollable Phoenix Force, he was wrong and was corrupted by it and murdered Xavier.

[Jokerz79]

To be honest Cyclops is my favorite Marvel character and I don't feel he did anything wrong. Driver's death happened under the influence of the Phoenix and all his actions to safe guard the future of his race was justified given the circumstances. But there is a big difference between him and Steve Scott chose to do those things Steve was altered by Kobik and thus IMO innocent of his actions as Hydra Cap.

[ExodusCloak]

Magneto was found not guilty TWICE in the courts (and he actually IS guitly), so it's not exactly impossible for a mutant to have their day in court. But certainly bigotry exists.

Not in an American Court

[MagSeven]

To be honest Cyclops is my favorite Marvel character and I don't feel he did anything wrong. Driver's death happened under the influence of the Phoenix and all his actions to safe guard the future of his race was justified given the circumstances. But there is a big difference between him and Steve Scott chose to do those things Steve was altered by Kobik and thus IMO innocent of his actions as Hydra Cap.

I like Scott and the Hitler comparison in the books is ludicrous, but he isn't a Boy Scout by any means. He organized a death squad. Sure it was to safeguard against threats that would cost lives down the road, but legally Scott had a lot to answer for.