Mockingbird's "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" T-shirt popping up in ASM

[oldschool]

The more I see people complain about this sort of thing, the more it seems like people see what they want to see.

Indeed.

10 char

[WebLurker]

Superman,Action Comics,Batman,Nightwing,Trinity and Supersons.

Okay. Not reading any of those, although I am following DC's Green Lanterns.

I often wonder why is there this outcry about this perceived over sexualization of women in comics but not in Hollywood movies,TV Shows,Kid shows and commercials? Why is comics their main concern when comics only reaches a fringe audience?

Well, here's a recent movie one.

[Mister Mets]

I think the creator of that cartoon needs to Google "narrow-minded." Cuz they obviously are not aware of the broad range of what appeals to men/women or what men/women wish they looked like.

To be fair it is a response to a comment in a similar vein.

[Mister Mets]

I often wonder why is there this outcry about this perceived over sexualization of women in comics but not in Hollywood movies,TV Shows,Kid shows and commercials? Why is comics their main concern when comics only reaches a fringe audience?

Here's a 2007 article on the male gaze, which includes references to television, video games and comics.

https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress...gaze%E2%80%9D/

Those discussions have been going on for a while. Comics might be targeted to a high degree, because it's a static visual medium, and images can be reproduced easily.

[Vaegrin]

Here's a 2007 article on the male gaze, which includes references to television, video games and comics.

https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress...gaze%E2%80%9D/

Those discussions have been going on for a while. Comics might be targeted to a high degree, because it's a static visual medium, and images can be reproduced easily.

You're right, it's been a discussion in all sorts of media. And it's been a very confusing discussion, to be sure. Sometimes strong sexualization is liberating; other times it's objectifying. It's okay to praise some body types sometimes, but not others. Sometimes pandering to the male gaze or the female gaze is fine; other times it's problematic. The rules seem very complex.

I'm very much in favor of moving away from a supersaturation of hyper-sexualization everywhere. That doesn't mean it's never okay to portray sexuality, or to portray something as sexually desirable. But targeting everything, even in non-sexual contexts, towards stimulation of the male gaze is a little gross.

That said, in comics, superheroes, whether male or female, should look awesome. I am not down with superheroes who look boring or mundane.

[CrimsonEchidna]

You're right, it's been a discussion in all sorts of media. And it's been a very confusing discussion, to be sure. Sometimes strong sexualization is liberating; other times it's objectifying. It's okay to praise some body types sometimes, but not others. Sometimes pandering to the male gaze or the female gaze is fine; other times it's problematic. The rules seem very complex.

I'm very much in favor of moving away from a supersaturation of hyper-sexualization everywhere. That doesn't mean it's never okay to portray sexuality, or to portray something as sexually desirable. But targeting everything, even in non-sexual contexts, towards stimulation of the male gaze is a little gross.

That said, in comics, superheroes, whether male or female, should look awesome. I am not down with superheroes who look boring or mundane.

A lot of it comes down to what the actual tone of the work is going for. It's like when people complain about the art of the Squirrel Girl book and how Doreen isn't "hot enough" even though that's not even the type of tone or even the audience the book is trying to attract.

[Timmyb52]

You're right, it's been a discussion in all sorts of media. And it's been a very confusing discussion, to be sure. Sometimes strong sexualization is liberating; other times it's objectifying. It's okay to praise some body types sometimes, but not others. Sometimes pandering to the male gaze or the female gaze is fine; other times it's problematic. The rules seem very complex.

I'm very much in favor of moving away from a supersaturation of hyper-sexualization everywhere. That doesn't mean it's never okay to portray sexuality, or to portray something as sexually desirable. But targeting everything, even in non-sexual contexts, towards stimulation of the male gaze is a little gross.

That said, in comics, superheroes, whether male or female, should look awesome. I am not down with superheroes who look boring or mundane.

Although I can sympathize with what your saying here to a large degree we must be realistic...sex sales...and as long as it does you will always have hyper-sexualization of both sexes in all media and entertainment.

[JoeWithoutFear]

I often wonder why is there this outcry about this perceived over sexualization of women in comics but not in Hollywood movies,TV Shows,Kid shows and commercials? Why is comics their main concern when comics only reaches a fringe audience?

Yea, as others have said, it's absolutely been a topic in other media. But, it's been a bigger push in comics, and recently in gaming, because they *are* more fringe and thus trying to impose changes on them will upset fewer people and present fewer nuanced opinions to counter. Additionally, since that audience is geeky guys who tend to be easier to push around, there is more room for success. As proof, you can look to football/cheerleader culture (ya know, real life) and you will not find even a fraction of people trying to shout at those cultures about telling the girls to cover up and/or telling society to stop enabling cheerleading in general.

[Confuzzled]

Additionally, since that audience is geeky guys who tend to be easier to push around, there is more room for success.

What?! Incidents like Gamergate and that milkshake thing show that "Geeky guys" can actually be the most insecure and nasty bullies.

Also, a big budget Hollywood movie Ghost in the Shell came under heavy criticism just this year. So it's not just comics and games.

[Yagamifire]

What?! Incidents like Gamergate and that milkshake thing show that "Geeky guys" can actually be the most insecure and nasty bullies.

Also, a big budget Hollywood movie Ghost in the Shell came under heavy criticism just this year. So it's not just comics and games.

Gamergate and the milkshake thing shows that a bunch of pros hide behind their gender when criticized and that other pros will treat them like children in need of protection

The exact opposites of empowerment and equality.

Double standards and hypocrisy are what those events were about.

[JoeWithoutFear]

What?! Incidents like Gamergate and that milkshake thing show that "Geeky guys" can actually be the most insecure and nasty bullies.

Also, a big budget Hollywood movie Ghost in the Shell came under heavy criticism just this year. So it's not just comics and games.

1. I think I made it pretty clear that it was not isolated to just comics and games.
2. #GG and #MMM are perfect examples of my point. There would never be the momentum behind them if they didn't think they could push around the fans of the thing in question. Again, let me know when a hashtag or movement to change how cheerleaders dress/act starts trending. Or, strip clubs in rap culture. Those are, y'know, real life, but you'll never see any movements to change them get traction. Besides, the people who are involved at the beginning of those scandals you mentioned quickly become entirely peripheral to the stupidity that follows.

Gamergate and the milkshake thing shows that a bunch of pros hide behind their gender when criticized and that other pros will treat them like children in need of protection

The exact opposites of empowerment and equality.

Double standards and hypocrisy are what those events were about.

+1

[Confuzzled]

#GG and #MMM are perfect examples of my point. There would never be the momentum behind them if they didn't think they could push around the fans of the thing in question. Again, let me know when a hashtag or movement to change how cheerleaders dress/act starts trending. Or, strip clubs in rap culture. Those are, y'know, real life, but you'll never see any movements to change them get traction. Besides, the people who are involved at the beginning of those scandals you mentioned quickly become entirely peripheral to the stupidity that follows.

GG and MMM started off with a bunch of male geeks throwing a fit because a female gamer got a good review by a dude she once dated and because some women posted a pic sharing milkshakes on social media respectively. "Pushing around" indeed lol

1. I think I made it pretty clear that it was not isolated to just comics and games.

You were painting "geek guys" as some vulnerable targets when it has been repeatedly observed that they can actually be the nastiest. Look at #OscarsSoWhite and the Ghost in the Shell incidents to see how other parties handled such criticisms and then look at GamerGate and MMM for comparison sake.

[Yagamifire]

You were painting "geek guys" as some vulnerable targets when it has been repeatedly observed that they can actually be the nastiest.

You are painting "feminists" as some vulnerable targets when it has been repeatedly observed that they can actually be the nastiest.

[Confuzzled]

You are painting "feminists" as some vulnerable targets when it has been repeatedly observed that they can actually be the nastiest.

When did feminists send rape/mutilation threats and post addresses of people they were attacking online?

Also, this study in the gaming industry shows that women indeed are viewed as more vulnerable targets by men who are... let's say threatened by their own shortcomings and feelings of ineptitude... as opposed to "alpha male threats":

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-2...-finds/6636320

"Low-status males increase female-directed hostility to minimise the loss of status", the research article, published in the journal PLOS, said.

"We show that lower-skilled players were more hostile towards a female-voiced team-mate, especially when performing poorly," the study found.

But the losing male players "behaved submissively towards a male-voiced player in the identical scenario".

[Yagamifire]

Diversity & Comics literally just had his info doxed by a feminist a couple days ago with the encouragement of Heather Antos.

So...yeah right then.

Also I and others have received plenty of threats. When I get those threats I just troll or ignore the person....instead of demanding everyone come to my rescue. It's the internet...people are infants