Mockingbird's "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" T-shirt popping up in ASM

[Masked Guy]

That may very well be the true course of events, and I have no problem with it. We have an unsound editorial decision (it didn't really boost sales) and the worst writer in ASM history, I've had the misfortune to read, promoting his own personal agenda: against the editors original idea (a much better writer than him), with the acquiescence of MJ's creator and the indifference of Gwen's co-creator (did this guy ever cared about anything but business?).

It's funny you should say that because Stan Lee would later admit that Mary Jane was a much better character than Gwen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqRdAZED9Y&t=32s

[WebLurker]

There's an account where it's all Conway's fault. That he snuck it past both to further his "ship".

I heard a podcast interview with Conway where he did admit that this was a factor in the decision.

[nose norton]

Forcing Conway to write the first Clone Saga just so she could be around if writers wanted to use her...what's funny is...no one did.

I have a lot of trouble, imagining Conway being forced to write a story, that did everything he could hope for:

- It changed the dynamic of Peter and Gwen's relationship, in a very short span of time.
- It showed Peter getting over her, saying goodbye and finally choosing MJ.
- It started a long Marvel tradition, of gradually denigrating the character, each time a new clone gets out of a tube.

This was his farewell gift, his legacy. It was the way he wanted the new status quo to be. Then came Wolfman, another writer better than him, and things were put on hold. Another bad writer was needed to start retconning the character, to get things back on track, and once again, Conway was in the right place, at the right time, to push his agenda with Parallel Lives, this time for good. (I don't believe OMD will last forever).

[nose norton]

It's funny you should say that because Stan Lee would later admit that Mary Jane was a much better character than Gwen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqRdAZED9Y&t=32s

Stan says many things, and most aren't to be trusted. He is, after all, a salesman.

[Masked Guy]

Stan says many things, and most aren't to be trusted. He is, after all, a salesman.

He had no reason to lie there; he wasn't selling anything.

[nose norton]

He had no reason to lie there; he wasn't selling anything.

Are you sure, have you seen the Gwen/MJ polls?

[Masked Guy]

Are you sure, have you seen the Gwen/MJ polls?

Mary Jane is a much more popular character than Gwen. I've seen a lot of people who prefer Gwen only cite the Amazing Spider-Man films as their reason. Among comic fans, Mary Jane is the far more popular choice. It's a large reason why Mary Jane has stuck around and why a series like Renew Your Vows exists. Also, it's a large reason why Gwen has never been resurrected in over 40 years: she works better as a concept than a character.

[Masked Guy]

I have a lot of trouble, imagining Conway being forced to write a story, that did everything he could hope for:

- It changed the dynamic of Peter and Gwen's relationship, in a very short span of time.
- It showed Peter getting over her, saying goodbye and finally choosing MJ.
- It started a long Marvel tradition, of gradually denigrating the character, each time a new clone gets out of a tube.

This was his farewell gift, his legacy. It was the way he wanted the new status quo to be. Then came Wolfman, another writer better than him, and things were put on hold. Another bad writer was needed to start retconning the character, to get things back on track, and once again, Conway was in the right place, at the right time, to push his agenda with Parallel Lives, this time for good. (I don't believe OMD will last forever).

I thought Conway's run was far superior to Wolfman's.

[Starrius]

Mary Jane is a much more popular character than Gwen. I've seen a lot of people who prefer Gwen only cite the Amazing Spider-Man films as their reason. Among comic fans, Mary Jane is the far more popular choice. It's a large reason why Mary Jane has stuck around and why a series like Renew Your Vows exists. Also, it's a large reason why Gwen has never been resurrected in over 40 years: she works better as a concept than a character.

Emma Stone was very good in the Amazing Spider-Man films. She had great chemistry with Andrew Garfield. They were in a relationship.
Furthermore, Emma Stone's Gwen was a bit different from the comics.

Mary Jane was definitely a lot more popular than Gwen in the 1960s and 1970s, and that made it easy to kill off Gwen.

I didn't care for Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane which I thought it was different from the comics.
I didn't get the "Face it, Tiger...You Hit the Jackpot" impression from her at all.

Mary Jane should have been in the Amazing Spider-Man films.
There was a triangle of Mary Jane/Peter/Gwen triangle in the comics, but Peter chose Gwen because Gwen seemed like the stable woman to settle down with and Mary Jane was the flaky party girl. Of course, Stan wanted Gwen to be Peter's girlfriend even though most readers wanted Mary Jane to be Peter's girlfriend.


I like movie Gwen a lot more than I like movie Mary Jane.
I like comic Mary Jane a lot more than I likce comic Gwen.

[nose norton]

Mary Jane is a much more popular character than Gwen. I've seen a lot of people who prefer Gwen only cite the Amazing Spider-Man films as their reason. Among comic fans, Mary Jane is the far more popular choice. It's a large reason why Mary Jane has stuck around and why a series like Renew Your Vows exists. Also, it's a large reason why Gwen has never been resurrected in over 40 years: she works better as a concept than a character.

You're missing my point. Stan was selling MJ, because it was the most popular product.

[Masked Guy]

Emma Stone was very good in the Amazing Spider-Man films. She had great chemistry with Andrew Garfield. They were in a relationship.
Furthermore, Emma Stone's Gwen was a bit different from the comics.

I agree. Stone was easily one of the strongest aspects of those films. Ironically, her character actually felt closer to Mary Jane's than it did Gwen's.

Mary Jane was definitely a lot more popular than Gwen in the 1960s and 1970s, and that made it easy to kill off Gwen.

It's funny because people didn't really seem to start caring about Gwen until she died.

[nose norton]

Mary Jane was definitely a lot more popular than Gwen in the 1960s and 1970s, and that made it easy to kill off Gwen.

How do you know?

[nose norton]

Ironically, her character actually felt closer to Mary Jane's than it did Gwen's.

It's funny because people didn't really seem to start caring about Gwen until she died.

Yeah, because MJ was always about science.

I don't know about other people, but I cared before and after. On the other hand, the phrase Conway likes to coin about her (not being much but the death of her, or something like that) actually applies to him. Had he not killed Gwen, no one would remember him.

[Masked Guy]

You're missing my point. Stan was selling MJ, because it was the most popular product.

I didn't get that impression, but I can understand how one could reach that conclusion.

[Masked Guy]

Yeah, because MJ was always about science.

I don't know about other people, but I cared before and after. On the other hand, the phrase Conway likes to coin about her (not being much but the death of her, or something like that) actually applies to him. Had he not killed Gwen, no one would remember him.

We were told that Gwen was a science major, but never really got to see that side of her.

Conway certainly wouldn't be as famous, but I doubt he would have faded into obscurity.