whats this milkshake thing all about?

[SlimeBeherit]

Still waiting on those tweets of the legitimate criticism as well.

[nnelg]

Equality is important. If this happened to a man then everyone he knows would tell him to suck it up and that this wasn't a big deal. Everyone knows this. So why should any response be different? Is it because this involves a woman? That isn't treating everyone as equals and everyone knows it.

[Crimz]

Equality is important. If this happened to a man then everyone he knows would tell him to suck it up and that this wasn't a big deal. Everyone knows this. So why should any response be different? Is it because this involves a woman? That isn't treating everyone as equals and everyone knows it.

I have no idea why you are trying to defend these pathetic people. They are not criticizing anything, they are just misogynistic inbred idiots who deserve to be called out.

[Pav]

Equality is important. If this happened to a man then everyone he knows would tell him to suck it up and that this wasn't a big deal. Everyone knows this. So why should any response be different? Is it because this involves a woman? That isn't treating everyone as equals and everyone knows it.

Equality does not mean we treat all people exactly the same in our actions; it's about bestowing the same respect to all people and letting each circumstance dictate our actions. It's an awareness of what is appropriate in any given instance and with whom and why.

You seem to be insisting that these women should shrug off online harassment because men would be told to shrug it off.

I'm not sure I agree with the logic of that idea, for various reasons.

-Pav, who LOVED today's issue of Iron Fist btw...

[JoeWithoutFear]

It comes down to this: depending on what people ALREADY believe, they will emphasize facts and ignore other facts that lead to one of the following conclusions...

A. Comic book fandom is filled with closed-minded, straight, white, males who can't stand female employees or characters in Marvel comics. Women who work at Marvel took a picture showing that they exist. This upset all the previously mentioned bigots who, for some reason, were not aware of their existence until that picture was taken. These bigots, of which there are too many to count, went on a tirade of harassment against these women. As a result, many people are getting the hashtag #MikeMineMilkshake trending to show support and solidarity for these poor, harassed women who just want to make the best super hero comic books they can for absolutely everybody - including straight, white males.

B. Comic book fandom is filled with people who do not like identity politics in Marvel comics. They believe that picture represents the agenda of identity politics in Marvel comics. A few inappropriate and unacceptable trolls, but not that many given the size of twitter, voiced their disapproval using this image as a lightning rod. Then, people claimed victim status for those in the image and tried to make a mountain out of that mole hill. Claims of harassment against women were made because that has become a great way to generate positive support and attention in the age of social media. This upset many reasonable people who do not want Marvel comics fiction to be run under the assumption that straight, white, males are inherently bad unless stated otherwise. They have no problem with female employees or characters, they just don't want to be treated as "a problem" in the medium they love. This set off a war between all parties involved, because, it's the internet. And anyone with a little perspective on the issue would know that male employees taking a similar picture would get the same initial friction - the only difference is that it wouldn't erupt into a sh*t-storm because no one would be leaping to their defense claiming gender-based harassment.

====

Most people on CBR, and/or who would trouble themselves to speak in a thread like this one, believe choice A.

[Blind Wedjat]

LMAO this has to be the stupidest thing I've read all week

[Vault]

I have no idea why you are trying to defend these pathetic people. They are not criticizing anything, they are just misogynistic inbred idiots who deserve to be called out.

I'm not sure nnleg is defending them (by all accounts he's called these trolls terrible people like everyone else), or just trying to say that internet trolls don't matter and shouldn't be responded to. Either way, I enjoy a good troll bashing and don't know why we shouldn't all have a go at these sexist basement-dwellers for the good of the fandom. Weed out the voices that make us, as comic book fans, look bad, because you know someone's going to group us in with the worst of them.

What is the concern here? Is it the fear that these "victims" of online harassment stand for something else? That they're the ones pushing out the old heroes? That if we let them be victims, then their voice will be heard loudest and will continue to "ruin" Marvel? My apologies if I'm off base here.

[Raye]

I have no idea why you are trying to defend these pathetic people. They are not criticizing anything, they are just misogynistic inbred idiots who deserve to be called out.

To me, I saw this as a sort of straw that broke the camel's back, which resulted in Marvel (and then DC etc. joined in) drawing a line in the sand. Especially after Brevoort retweeted this pic:

CItPdTyW8AAw9N9.jpg

This sort of commentary and attitude coming from a certain subset of fans is nothing new, this was just the latest example of a a growing trend. And I think this was just the the thing that made them go 'ok, that's it, we're done with these guys' and then set out to make it clear exactly where they stood.

Basically, I don't think the response is really JUST about the milkshake comments, that was just the tipping point.

[kilderkin]

why anyone uses twitter any more is beyond me, every time I get on there I regret it.

Now there's a point

[Materiel]

It's been awhile since the last controversy. We needed a new one, apparently.

[nnelg]

I have no idea why you are trying to defend these pathetic people. They are not criticizing anything, they are just misogynistic inbred idiots who deserve to be called out.

Who exactly am I trying to defend? Did I say they are criticizing anything? I'm wondering why people on these forums are making any of this out to be a controversy. This is a nothing story.

[random82]

To me, I saw this as a sort of straw that broke the camel's back, which resulted in Marvel (and then DC etc. joined in) drawing a line in the sand. Especially after Brevoort retweeted this pic:

CItPdTyW8AAw9N9.jpg

This sort of commentary and attitude coming from a certain subset of fans is nothing new, this was just the latest example of a a growing trend. And I think this was just the the thing that made them go 'ok, that's it, we're done with these guys' and then set out to make it clear exactly where they stood.

Basically, I don't think the response is really JUST about the milkshake comments, that was just the tipping point.

Except that the comments made about these women on this specific occasion and other criticisms directed at Marvel's creative direction over the last while aren't the same thing. Just as those few individuals who have indeed been out of order with this one don't represent all the 'classic' fans - even those who are finding Marvel's current direction difficult and may have brought this up. Yet these things seem to be getting grouped the same way - and theres a reason for that.

This is propaganda on Marvels part. At this point they are deliberately trying to create a situation of '2 sides' and are revelling in the hostility that is being generated. Stirring up the fires of hate and resentment all in an effort to court controversy and generate interest from the media whilst making themselves look like the saintly hero - saving humanity from the monster, that they, quite literally created through their own manipulations.

I have read plenty of comments that i have disagreed with over the last few months - and they have come from both 'sides'. People do need to take responsibility for their own views and actions but I feel that a huge amount of the negativity that has been generated is on Marvel and has been very much deliberate.

I say that with a great amount of regret as Marvel once stood for something so positive - literally, it helped me through my childhood, and I imagine was the same for many others. Whether or not they had more noble intentions to begin with - they are no longer pushing diversity, they're pushing hate. They can try to portray themselves however they like but deep down thats what it comes down to - manipulating people against each other for their own ends. I have lost all respect for them at this point.

[JoeWithoutFear]

@random82

Brilliantly said.

I'm wondering why people on these forums are making any of this out to be a controversy. This is a nothing story.

Ah, but what if a nothing story could be leveraged into a something story?? That's the reality we're dealing with at the moment.

[ViewtifulJC]

clearly diversity is the reason marvel is in the creative/sales doldrums right now

[Raye]

Except that the comments made about these women on this specific occasion and other criticisms directed at Marvel's creative direction over the last while aren't the same thing. Just as those few individuals who have indeed been out of order with this one don't represent all the 'classic' fans - even those who are finding Marvel's current direction difficult and may have brought this up. Yet these things seem to be getting grouped the same way - and theres a reason for that.

This is propaganda on Marvels part. At this point they are deliberately trying to create a situation of '2 sides' and are revelling in the hostility that is being generated. Stirring up the fires of hate and resentment all in an effort to court controversy and generate interest from the media whilst making themselves look like the saintly hero - saving humanity from the monster, that they, quite literally created through their own manipulations.

I have read plenty of comments that i have disagreed with over the last few months - and they have come from both 'sides'. People do need to take responsibility for their own views and actions but I feel that a huge amount of the negativity that has been generated is on Marvel and has been very much deliberate.

I say that with a great amount of regret as Marvel once stood for something so positive - literally, it helped me through my childhood, and I imagine was the same for many others. Whether or not they had more noble intentions to begin with - they are no longer pushing diversity, they're pushing hate. They can try to portray themselves however they like but deep down thats what it comes down to - manipulating people against each other for their own ends. I have lost all respect for them at this point.

All Marvel did was post support of their female staff, mostly through a couple images. If that's 'propaganda', I have no problem with it. If it's divisive, anyone who would be offended by that isn't worth having as a fan. That one Cobain post by Brevoort is the only one that actually came close to basically said they didn't want the patronage of a particularly nasty group of fans. But that's kind of been their attitude for a while now, even if they don't come out and say the words. And by 'a while' i mean decades. This is not something new. Yeah, that will piss off some. It can be divisive. But the ones getting offended over the presence of women in comics aren't worth catering to, so who cares? Marvel has every right to put their foot down and say they are not going to bend and cater to fans who have repugnant, backwards views that they disagree with.