MCU Winter Soldier vs Netflix Luke Cage

[master of read]

Nah, Hydra experimented on him.
It does not go into detail but he is clearly enhanced.
His cybernetic arm is stronger than his body, but he is very clearly superhuman.

it's mentioned that zola did enhance bucky with a process similar to the SSS but a bit different. and they were able to replicate it well enough to create a squad of them.

[master of read]

A) That's mostly comic Winter Soldier, not MCU Winter Soldier,

B) most/all of those people are not stronger than Cage in direct melee combat (though if this was the Fox X-Men version, I guess that would depend on what JFK's mutant power was), and

C) most of those kills were assassinations or people who weren't bulletproof.

the only named person bucky killed as WS in the movies was sitwell, and he wasn't anywhere near superhuman. everyone else was just nameless goons and mooks, not counting assassinations.

[Guy1]

spoilers:

So Defenders had a Luke VS Danny fight. It was basically Luke no selling everything Danny tried while Danny dodged around him. Luke only really landed shots when Danny was in the middle of hitting him. When Danny brought out the iron fist, he was able to send Luke flying down an alleyway and into a shutter door. It hurt Luke but he got back up.

end of spoilers

[Twickster]

I think nothing really put Luke down for the 10-count physically in the Defenders. While it *does* show that Luke can indeed be hurt by sufficient force and/or sufficiently skilled fighters; on the other hand, I think its now established that Luke will *not* go down to such force. Chalk it to his regen or someother.

[Iron Fist]

spoilers:

Elektra, who we assume has super strength, knocks Luke out cold with one hit.

end of spoilers

[Twickster]

spoilers:

Elektra, who we assume has super strength, knocks Luke out cold with one hit.

end of spoilers

I doubt that, knocked him around, perhaps (which happened a lot). Of perhaps this was when he was drugged? Care to remind me of the scene?

[Iron Fist]

I doubt that, knocked him around, perhaps (which happened a lot). Of perhaps this was when he was drugged? Care to remind me of the scene?

spoilers:

He wakes up from being knocked out by Stick, tackles Elektra, blocks some blows, she runs up a wall and flips him onto the ground then stomps on his face knocking him out

end of spoilers

So I'd say if you have super strength you can KO Luke with the right blow at the right angle. Do we consider Bucky to have super strength?

[Twickster]

spoilers:

He wakes up from being knocked out by Stick, tackles Elektra, blocks some blows, she runs up a wall and flips him onto the ground then stomps on his face knocking him out

end of spoilers

So I'd say if you have super strength you can KO Luke with the right blow at the right angle. Do we consider Bucky to have super strength?

He does all of that while drugged. Claire even remarks that as the cause of his unconsciousness.

So there are extenuating circumstances. Given everything, and in particular the multiple hits Luke has in fact taken from Elektra prior and after to that, that's not enough to say Black Sky can knock out Luke Cage with physical force.

So I'd say if you have super strength you can KO Luke with the right blow at the right angle. Do we consider Bucky to have super strength?

Luke Cage got up from being hit on the chin from the Iron Fist (which, needless to say, is *much* more impressive this time around. Bucky does not hit harder than Defenders Iron Fist. So no, Bucky cannot knock out Luke just by punching him.

The only single feat of Luke being KO'd by physical force was way back in Jessica Jones from the shotgun, and given the preponderance of this other feats, that's an outlier and can be discarded.

[Iron Fist]

He does all of that while drugged. Claire even remarks that as the cause of his unconsciousness.

So there are extenuating circumstances. Given everything, and in particular the multiple hits Luke has in fact taken from Elektra prior and after to that, that's not enough to say Black Sky can knock out Luke Cage with physical force.



Luke Cage got up from being hit on the chin from the Iron Fist (which, needless to say, is *much* more impressive this time around. Bucky does not hit harder than Defenders Iron Fist. So no, Bucky cannot knock out Luke just by punching him.

The only single feat of Luke being KO'd by physical force was way back in Jessica Jones from the shotgun, and given the preponderance of this other feats, that's an outlier and can be discarded.

He's competent enough to block blows, why would the drugs make him more susceptible to being KO'd that doesn't make sense?

Claire guesses him being drugged is why he's unconscious, but he doesn't wake up much later than Matt or Jessica so it doesn't seem like a factor at all.

[Twickster]

He's competent enough to block blows, why would the drugs make him more susceptible to being KO'd that doesn't make sense?

Claire guesses him being drugged is why he's unconscious, but he doesn't wake up much later than Matt or Jessica so it doesn't seem like a factor at all.

Seriously?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Seriously?

Name and Avatar are likely circumstantial evidence here.

[Iron Fist]

Seriously?

If Cage were woozy or whatever then you'd have a point, but he woke up and seemed fine. Drugs wouldn't make blunt force trauma to the head MORE likely to make him unconscious, the trauma itself is enough.

And episode wise Cage wakes up like 20 mins after Matt does, so I kinda don't buy the drug coma idea floated by Claire. Plus why would Stick make a drug to put Luke in a coma? He only needed him out of action for a few minutes to kill Danny.

[Twickster]

If Cage were woozy or whatever then you'd have a point, but he woke up and seemed fine. Drugs wouldn't make blunt force trauma to the head MORE likely to make him unconscious, the trauma itself is enough.

And episode wise Cage wakes up like 20 mins after Matt does, so I kinda don't buy the drug coma idea floated by Claire. Plus why would Stick make a drug to put Luke in a coma? He only needed him out of action for a few minutes to kill Danny.

You are really reaching for this.

Are you actually claiming that Elektra hits harder than Iron Fist? Hits harder than a rocket launcher? Or that Elektra, who literally hits Luke in the face, possibly dozens of other times throughout the series, and never KO's him in those times except for the single time where he in fact just wakes up momentarily after inhaling a drug with a specific purpose of knocking him out, does knock him out? Or to ignore the stated analysis of an in-universe medical professional? One who says outright that "a drug knocked him out"?

You really want to claim any of these? Really?

[Iron Fist]

You are really reaching for this.

Are you actually claiming that Elektra hits harder than Iron Fist? Hits harder than a rocket launcher? Or that Elektra, who literally hits Luke in the face, possibly dozens of other times throughout the series, and never KO's him in those times except for the single time where he in fact just wakes up momentarily after inhaling a drug with a specific purpose of knocking him out, does knock him out? Or to ignore the stated analysis of an in-universe medical professional? One who says outright that "a drug knocked him out"?

You really want to claim any of these? Really?

Considering said medical professional wasn't there and evidence of incapacitating drugs were, it's hardly a crazy conclusion to come to.

I said it obviously varies on angle of impact, she stomps on his face squarely above the nose while Iron Fist punches him in the mouth. And we don't have an accurate strength reading for Elektra for someone reason being an undead Black Sky makes her cable to go head to head with everyone, she knocked out everyone.

Why would Elektra have to hit harder than a rocket launcher? Surely it'd have to be equal to since the rocket launcher knocked him out.

[Twickster]

Considering said medical professional wasn't there and evidence of incapacitating drugs were, it's hardly a crazy conclusion to come to.

I said it obviously varies on angle of impact, she stomps on his face squarely above the nose while Iron Fist punches him in the mouth. And we don't have an accurate strength reading for Elektra for someone reason being an undead Black Sky makes her cable to go head to head with everyone, she knocked out everyone.

Why would Elektra have to hit harder than a rocket launcher? Surely it'd have to be equal to since the rocket launcher knocked him out.

So you are saying that Elektra hits equal to a rocket launcher?

Is this really something you want to claim?