Hypothetical Peter/Gwen marriage

[WebLurker]

What an odd world that would be. Like a version of earth without any sardines.

Given that multiple adaptations have not used the clones, I don't see why it would be so odd.

[nose norton]

Roy Thomas was the editor of the book at the time. And John Romita, Sr. still had a lot of pull. Conway could not make these decisions unilaterally.

Already discussed, starting with this post.

[WeirdSpider]

I'm aware of how little he worked on the character, what I meant is that he failed to see the character's personality, as stablished before he arrived.

What personality?
You mean crying all the time?
By the time Conway took over the book from Stan, Gwen was basically damaged goods.

It gets even crazier than that. Without Gwen's death, would Norman just continue to get amnesia every time he became the Green Goblin and fought Spider-Man? Does that mean we don't get Harry as the Green Goblin? Does that mean we don't get the Hobgoblin?

Odds are that Doc Ock would have ended up becoming the #1 villain of the franchise if Gwen hadn't died.

[Kevinroc]

Already discussed, starting with this post.

Your assessment is incorrect.

That may very well be the true course of events, and I have no problem with it. We have an unsound editorial decision (it didn't really boost sales) and the worst writer in ASM history, I've had the misfortune to read, promoting his own personal agenda: against the editors original idea (a much better writer than him), with the acquiescence of MJ's creator and the indifference of Gwen's co-creator (did this guy ever cared about anything but business?).

http://www.cbr.com/john-romita-sr-re...-and-stan-lee/

From John Romita, Sr.

Yes, I’m the murderer. [Laughs]

The reason I take the credit for it was we were told to kill Aunt May. Gerry Conway and I got together for our plot session — we used to get together at his apartment — and he said, how are we going to kill Aunt May? I said, if you kill Aunt May, you’re not going to do a damn bit of good to the strip. It’ll lose one of Peter Parker’s hangups. He won’t have to worry about Aunt May anymore. He won’t be treated like a child anymore. If we want to make any kind of stir in the monthly line, we have to kill somebody important. That means we need to kill Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy.

The reason I told we should kill Gwen Stacy was Mary Jane was an airheaded comedy character at the time. She was there to jazz the place up. She was not his girlfriend. His girlfriend was Gwen Stacy. I said, I learned from Milton Caniff. Milton Caniff every three or four years killed an important character. I remember as a young boy hearing adults saying that did you see that Raven Sherman has been killed in “Terry and the Pirates?” I said to myself, oh my god, grownups are talking about “Terry and the Pirates?” They worried about Raven Sherman. Raven Sherman was Pat Ryan’s girlfriend in “Terry and the Pirates.” I was an avid reader of “Terry and the Pirates.” It hurt me, but I didn’t expect it to hurt grownups. That stayed with me. I told Gerry Conway that story and I said, if you want to kill somebody, kill somebody important or leave it alone. He said it was a good idea. He was all for it because I convinced him, that would get attention. I submit that after forty years, I think it’s still getting attention. [Laughs] I think I was right.

I take great pride in that. When people say, “Did you really want to kill Gwen Stacy?” I say, “She was one of my favorite characters.” She was a Ditko character, remember. I created Mary Jane but Gwen Stacy was my favorite character and I did that knowing that that’s how I could get people’s attention.

Straight from Romita. "She (Gwen) was a Ditko character." "I created Mary Jane but Gwen Stacy was my favorite character."

[theoneandonly]

Gwen could have sided due to some other reason after the marriage eventually like being given cancer due to peters you know what or being consumed by venom or something of the sort. Then when at last peter is getting over it he would have to go to mephistos realm where she would be trapped by him who will propose that he will let her go provided they give him their marriage because souls have gone out of style. Then OMD and the like follows. Then Gwen becomes a receptionist or something at the police station until it gets wrecked by captain America who offers her Peggy's job and she will be throwj into prison after the hydra reveal develop Stockholm's syndrome and have an affair with him given her penchant for power hungry old individuals ends up giving birth to two hydra cap babies who will want to kill peter for reasons. Ugh I must stop before more crappy scenarios come to my mind.

[nose norton]

What personality?
You mean crying all the time?
By the time Conway took over the book from Stan, Gwen was basically damaged goods.

She cried often, because se cared. I'm not ashamed to admit to crying, watching movies and the like. Does that make me damaged goods too? Are we all supposed to have that Knight's armor, that once was reserved to men? Are we to be alienated of our feelings?

Besides, the crying was but an aspect of her personality, I'm not at all surprised that many chose to focus on that, but ignore her other defining traits.

[nose norton]

Your assessment is incorrect.



http://www.cbr.com/john-romita-sr-re...-and-stan-lee/

From John Romita, Sr.





Straight from Romita. "She (Gwen) was a Ditko character." "I created Mary Jane but Gwen Stacy was my favorite character."

Quoting people who contradict each other and sometimes themselves (Stan) won't get you anywhere. Nonetheless, I'll take you at your word about my being wrong despite no reasoning on your part, being made public.

[Kevinroc]

Quoting people who contradict each other and sometimes themselves (Stan) won't get you anywhere. Nonetheless, I'll take you at your word about my being wrong despite no reasoning on your part, being made public.

Do you feel better after making a post like this to some anonymous guy on a message board?

[nose norton]

Do you feel better after making a post like this to some anonymous guy on a message board?

Depends on the guy.

[WebLurker]

She cried often, because se cared. I'm not ashamed to admit to crying, watching movies and the like. Does that make me damaged goods too? Are we all supposed to have that Knight's armor, that once was reserved to men? Are we to be alienated of our feelings?

Besides, the crying was but an aspect of her personality, I'm not at all surprised that many chose to focus on that, but ignore her other defining traits.

My experience with old ASM is limited, but what I've gathered is that crying became one of her main defining traits at the expense of many of the other ones. There's also the old saw that she just wasn't a very interesting character period, which does track with what I have read firsthand about the character.

[nose norton]

what I've gathered is that crying became one of her main defining traits at the expense of many of the other ones

Very well said, for the sake of giving some scenes a little more drama, they had her overplaying that part, which often led to forgetting she was many other things.

[Scott Taylor]

There's also the old saw that she just wasn't a very interesting character period, which does track with what I have read firsthand about the character.

Depends on how you define interesting. Romita was in it for the long haul with her, obviously with the goal to be marriage. So her story is, more or less, build up to marriage with Peter rather than build up for her on her own merits. She lived in the shadow of Peter, moreso than other romance interests at the time.

In these discussions no one ever talks about Captain Stacy. His death was the real loss. Very interesting character with a simply amazing role in the comics.

[nose norton]

She lived in the shadow of Peter, moreso than other romance interests at the time.

In these discussions no one ever talks about Captain Stacy. His death was the real loss. Very interesting character with a simply amazing role in the comics.

In the sense that she was closer to him, than anyone else, I agree. But she was independent, and stood her ground more than once. One such instance, was when Peter apparently attacked Captain Stacy. Without a proper explanation on Peter's end, Gwen put their relationship on hold. Many will say that it was because she was a daddy's girl, but it was loyalty, which she didn't profuse just to her father.

[powerpackers90]

Here's what I think would happen.

1.) Gwen's on the bridge, she falls, and Peter saves her. She's still not waking up. But not dead. Peter and Norman still fight at the warehouse and Norman still dies.
2.) The next few issues still happen similar to the real events. but now he just upset that Gwen is hurt, and not dead.
3.) Gwen wakes up and losses some recent memories. So she doesn't know Spider-man saved her, and thinks him and the goblin were working together. She decides to leave New York.
4.) Next few years go on like normal. Harry becomes the Goblin, MJ and Peter start dating, and Warren is the Jackal (cause Gwen left because of Spider-man)
5.) The 70s Clone Saga never happens instead Jackal just kidnaps Gwen and brings her back to NYC. Jackal 'dies" when Peter saves her. Gwen finds out the truth about Peter. But he has moved on with MJ, and Gwen returns to where she was living.
6.) No real changes until Peter returns from battle world. Here is when Gwen returns to NYC for her job. She and Peter reconnect but are only friends as he's with Cat.
7.) Peter and Black Cat break up and after Ned is killed. Peter and Gwen get back together. MJ just lives life without Peter. Maybe ends up with Bruce for a while.
8.) Peter and Gwen get Married.
9.) then things happen similar yet different. Venom still happens, and Harry still dies. Only this time his plan is to kill Peter and Gwen for the death of Norman.
10.) It's turns out after the wedding day, It wasnt Gwen he was living with, But her Clone. This is the Clone Saga. Warren kidnapped her on their wedding night. and used the Clone to trick Peter into thinking he was with Gwen. Jackal again "dies" and Peter and Gwen are reunited.
11.) Next big change is The Twins show up. (remember I said she had memory loss) Here Gwen has to deal with her "Sins Past", and This is where Norman returns. Peter and Gwen take a break for awhile, and he joins the New Avengers.
12.) House of M. As Peter is married in the changed timeline with Mary Jane. Then returns to Normal.
13.) Civil War happens. May is not shot cause Peter grabbed her. And Peter's on the run Gwen files for divorce for her and her twins safety.
14.)No OMD but OMIT happens to return the secret Identity. Brand New Day - now is the similar. only with no Ben or New U, and Peter and MJ get close again.
15.) Peter and MJ end up together. Cause MJ is his soulmate and not Gwen.

[Scott Taylor]

In the sense that she was closer to him, than anyone else, I agree. But she was independent, and stood her ground more than once. One such instance, was when Peter apparently attacked Captain Stacy. Without a proper explanation on Peter's end, Gwen put their relationship on hold. Many will say that it was because she was a daddy's girl, but it was loyalty, which she didn't profuse just to her father.

Oh for sure. The relationship between Gwen and her father was very well done in that era. I really think when Captain Stacy died it was the beginning of the end for Gwen, as it kind of ruined all this development.