Generations: Hulk *Spoilers*

[Bossace]

This came out today and I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are, for a small recap:

-Cho appears in the past encountering a Ross Vs Hulk fight, mentioning how he was just in DC, so I'm curious if there is some context we are missing in between SE finale and this issue along with the other generations.

-Cho helps Banner fight off and escape soldiers, preventing banner from smashing some soldiers in the process leading him away to attack him.

-A fight between hulks ensues and for a rare brief moment we seen Cho eyes turn green and him actually letting loose which we rarely saw in TAH. After a brief fight Cho calls a draw and they both revert to human form.

-Banner questions how Cho can control his change but then they are interrupted by seeing helicopters and having to hide.

-Cho like Banner has had to many times now steals people's laundry and sees Banner eat out of a dumpster, seeing first hand how miserable Banner is and how he has had to live day in and day out.

-Banner mentions not being able to control the change and Cho mentions it as well, from reading champions and TAH I don't really recall that happening but then again I could be musing something.

-Banner mentions his past with his father and mother and while Cho tries to bring the optimism of the good the Hulk has done Banner brings up how how the Hulk is one heartbeat away from destroying everything.

-Due to all the army bombing to fight the Hulk previously they unleash a sea monster.

-Cho tries to get the monster back in the ocean while he tells Banner to free the civilians and watch his heart rate

-During Cho trying to get the monster back in the ocean the army decided to attack the monster and Cho making Cho rage out again and get angry.

-This time Banner as the Hulk kicks And punshes Cho telling him to stop now due to causing more damage and putting lives at risk.

-At that point Banner tells Cho that he's not special and not as great as he thinks he is and he's just like him and that he'll never full control the monster within and that sometimes the Hulk will take control of him.

-Banner mentions he and Cho are prison guards protecting the world from the Hulk and how this isn't a gift but a Curse.

-At this point the army returns firing at Banner and he changes into the Hulk again and runs off while Cho is transported back.

-Cho says it's finally time to admit this is a curse not a gift and hownhes going to find a way to end it before it ends him.

So it seems everything that made Banner the Hulk, hating being the Hulk and wanting to get rid of it are now part of Cho's Hulk story. The thing is this is a very quick way for him to develop this when his whole series he's been loving being the Hulk and in TAH I really haven't seen him struggle with the change or anger but only a few times.

As someone who likes both characters I feel like they're just copying Banner traits and sticking them on Cho. I read the CBR article on this issue today and it mentions a point where they're making it so if Banner comes back now after this issue it makes Cho redundant.

Obiovusly we are missing some context about the vanishing point from the end of SE whichnis still some ways away so there is more to these stories that we don't know. My fear is there just going to copy and paste traits from the old guard to the new guard. Which I don't want. I like the legacy characters for being different not variants of their older versions. I hope the other issues of Generation don't lead to the transfer of traits of the older characters. I'd like to have Banner back and keep Cho around, as we know it's only a matter of time that they do but this issue seems to make that stretch even longer.

[Cloudman]

So when Alonso said that Generations wasn't going to be a time-travel story, that was just a bare-faced lie.

Besides that little niggle, this issue didn't really accomplish much that wasn't happening already. If anything, it cheapens Cho's character arc to have his understanding of the Hulk rely on Banner.

I hope Pak is figuring out a way to draw Chulk to a close, and bring back Banner. It has been a fun novelty to have Cho as Hulk, but it doesn't warrant much more exploration unless a new writer comes at it from a different angle.

[Prof. Warren]

So when Alonso said that Generations wasn't going to be a time-travel story, that was just a bare-faced lie.

Besides that little niggle, this issue didn't really accomplish much that wasn't happening already. If anything, it cheapens Cho's character arc to have his understanding of the Hulk rely on Banner.

I hope Pak is figuring out a way to draw Chulk to a close, and bring back Banner. It has been a fun novelty to have Cho as Hulk, but it doesn't warrant much more exploration unless a new writer comes at it from a different angle.

As we don't know what the "vanishing point" is yet, we still don't know quite where this is taking place. It could be in the past, it could be in a dreamscape of sorts, it could be a pocket dimension. We don't know. Hopefully SE #8 will offer some answers. So I would hold off on assuming "no time travel" was a lie until further info is revealed.

Either way, this was an adequate Hulk romp. Decent, but nothing earth shaking.

As for it cheapening Cho's character to learn a thing or two about being a Hulk from the original Hulk...why would it? Banner's got greater experience. Cho is young and cocky and thinks he has it all figured out. It makes sense for Banner to impart some sobering wisdom Cho's way. And as Cho hasn't had Banner Hulk around to learn from during his superhero career thus far, it's cool that we finally got a Hulk to Hulk meeting that leaves Cho with something to think about. And Banner's line: "We're not heroes, we're prison guards." was especially nice.

And I don't think Cho's Hulk has been exhausted as a character yet in any way. There's still much to explore with him. We'll see if he sticks around. I hope he does.

My one complaint with this issue, aside from it not being clear yet about the mechanics behind these meetings, is that I found it slightly hard at times to differentiate one Hulk from the other and I thought Banner Hulk's reappearance towards the climax was somewhat abrupt and slightly confusing. Other than that, it was a solid read.

[Knives]

It was a good issue but it did not have anything really relevant and did not really feel a connection between Banner and Hulk.

It seems that each Legacy issue one of the old guard will pass something to the new generation in the case of Banner we return to the premise that being the Hulk is a curse that follow all those who have that power.

And honestly it would be hard for this to happen without time travel or something like that so I never took the promises they made seriously.

Maybe marvel should have dedicated more issues instead of just one.

[nnelg]

It isn't a bad issue. But Cho is the one that handles the big monster. I picked this up for Hulk. I don't want the " look these new characters are as good if not better than the original" story. But unlike a lot of people I vote with my wallet. I want a actual Hulk book so I bought this.

[jackolover]

This came out today and I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are, for a small recap:

-Cho appears in the past encountering a Ross Vs Hulk fight, mentioning how he was just in DC, so I'm curious if there is some context we are missing in between SE finale and this issue along with the other generations.

-Cho helps Banner fight off and escape soldiers, preventing banner from smashing some soldiers in the process leading him away to attack him.

-A fight between hulks ensues and for a rare brief moment we seen Cho eyes turn green and him actually letting loose which we rarely saw in TAH. After a brief fight Cho calls a draw and they both revert to human form.

-Banner questions how Cho can control his change but then they are interrupted by seeing helicopters and having to hide.

-Cho like Banner has had to many times now steals people's laundry and sees Banner eat out of a dumpster, seeing first hand how miserable Banner is and how he has had to live day in and day out.

-Banner mentions not being able to control the change and Cho mentions it as well, from reading champions and TAH I don't really recall that happening but then again I could be musing something.

-Banner mentions his past with his father and mother and while Cho tries to bring the optimism of the good the Hulk has done Banner brings up how how the Hulk is one heartbeat away from destroying everything.

-Due to all the army bombing to fight the Hulk previously they unleash a sea monster.

-Cho tries to get the monster back in the ocean while he tells Banner to free the civilians and watch his heart rate

-During Cho trying to get the monster back in the ocean the army decided to attack the monster and Cho making Cho rage out again and get angry.

-This time Banner as the Hulk kicks And punshes Cho telling him to stop now due to causing more damage and putting lives at risk.

-At that point Banner tells Cho that he's not special and not as great as he thinks he is and he's just like him and that he'll never full control the monster within and that sometimes the Hulk will take control of him.

-Banner mentions he and Cho are prison guards protecting the world from the Hulk and how this isn't a gift but a Curse.

-At this point the army returns firing at Banner and he changes into the Hulk again and runs off while Cho is transported back.

-Cho says it's finally time to admit this is a curse not a gift and hownhes going to find a way to end it before it ends him.

So it seems everything that made Banner the Hulk, hating being the Hulk and wanting to get rid of it are now part of Cho's Hulk story. The thing is this is a very quick way for him to develop this when his whole series he's been loving being the Hulk and in TAH I really haven't seen him struggle with the change or anger but only a few times.

As someone who likes both characters I feel like they're just copying Banner traits and sticking them on Cho. I read the CBR article on this issue today and it mentions a point where they're making it so if Banner comes back now after this issue it makes Cho redundant.

Obiovusly we are missing some context about the vanishing point from the end of SE whichnis still some ways away so there is more to these stories that we don't know. My fear is there just going to copy and paste traits from the old guard to the new guard. Which I don't want. I like the legacy characters for being different not variants of their older versions. I hope the other issues of Generation don't lead to the transfer of traits of the older characters. I'd like to have Banner back and keep Cho around, as we know it's only a matter of time that they do but this issue seems to make that stretch even longer.

I don't see it as copying and pasting Hulk traits to Cho, but just making Cho aware where he's heading - an uncontrollable rage monster.

The thing I get from your summary (I haven't got Generations yet), is that it does for Cho what was going to happen anyway, on top of a nostalgia trip for us fans of those old Hulk days. Cho Hulk is still not Banner Hulk, because Cho is so much more supported by his sister and the Champions. What Cho has to be prepared for is the rage monster that has been starting to show his ugly head on odd occasions in Cho already - the loss of time, some indiscriminate actions.

I really liked the premise here, of delving back to the 1960's (or is is some other time?) to experience a different time, and a different Hulk. I'm surprised Cho had to instruct Hulk to protect people and soldiers, because Hulk did this subconsciously all the time.

I'm so glad for a classic Hulk story, in a decompressed format, unlike the Ditko-Stan Lee style, where we learn more about Banners inner demons, whereas back in the early days all they showed was a rampaging hulk, and a slinking Banner and Rick Jones.

[Biclopcicle]

My problem is that, after Cho took on the gamma and cured Banner, they had weeks, months even of conversations regarding the Hulk prior to Banner's death. It seems somewhat of a narrative flaw to require that Cho experience the "Vanishing Point" to realize that his dreams/nightmares of the Hulk in the trunk and backseat of his convertible (as depicted in Totally Awesome Hulk issues) were something of substance. Like, "Banner's been holding out on me! I needed to have this surreal experience to substantiate my concerns!" Fell a little flat to me

[Biclopcicle]

It also leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that which CBR has proposed as the purpose of Generations- to phase out the old guard. If that's the case, Brevoort could have let the old characters actually age over the years and let new characters take on their mantles in a plot-driven fashion, instated of some stupid contrived sudden transferral of power. An easy solution is right there in front of Marvel, has been, yet they have to make a ridiculous story to squeeze in their non-plot driven legacy characters. Bad story telling.

[Digifiend]

Well, at least it explains why Cho's book is getting rebranded. He no longer thinks of himself as Totally Awesome!

[Tien Long]

As we don't know what the "vanishing point" is yet, we still don't know quite where this is taking place. It could be in the past, it could be in a dreamscape of sorts, it could be a pocket dimension. We don't know. Hopefully SE #8 will offer some answers. So I would hold off on assuming "no time travel" was a lie until further info is revealed.

Either way, this was an adequate Hulk romp. Decent, but nothing earth shaking.

As for it cheapening Cho's character to learn a thing or two about being a Hulk from the original Hulk...why would it? Banner's got greater experience. Cho is young and cocky and thinks he has it all figured out. It makes sense for Banner to impart some sobering wisdom Cho's way. And as Cho hasn't had Banner Hulk around to learn from during his superhero career thus far, it's cool that we finally got a Hulk to Hulk meeting that leaves Cho with something to think about. And Banner's line: "We're not heroes, we're prison guards." was especially nice.

Agreed with that. I liked that dynamic in the beginning, where Banner seemed to want to have the control that Amadeus had. The dynamic shifted however, when Banner pointed out that Amadeus is a prison guard and left the normally confident Amadeus something to think about.

As for the rest of Banner's appearance, I truly enjoyed it. It's been a good long while since I've read an army vs. Hulk story. Banner displayed that desire not to involve Betty, Rick, or Jen or cause any more harm.

But the point that really hit home for me was Bruce's recollection of his abusive past. It had been a long, LONG time since I read about the abuse he suffered at his father. That's a very integral component of the character. The pain and trauma that this caused Bruce still resonates after all of these decades.

So for those who say that Bruce Banner has no relevance or should be put to the side, well, I disagree.

And I don't think Cho's Hulk has been exhausted as a character yet in any way. There's still much to explore with him. We'll see if he sticks around. I hope he does.

Here here! As an Asian-American myself, I've been fully supportive of Amadeus Cho as Hulk and have been reading the series continuously. Yes Amadeus may accept Bruce's claim that the Hulk is a curse, but Amadeus wouldn't do the same things Banner did. I know Amadeus would try something different and for that I want to see what happens.

[AngelJD]

I was fine with Banner being the rage monster due to his anger issues he suffered.
I like Jennifer not being a copy and having control because she didn't have those psychological issues (the 'hulk' varieties are based on psychological emtions that can empower or make one lose control and Banner had psychological issues before being the Hulk). When she was changed it was due to a near death experience affecting her psyche making a new Hulk born from trauma (but not the anger issue kind but a different trauma) that she has to live with and find help in moving foward back to who she was.
I like Cho in control and only sometimes letting his emtions cloud him. For Banner it was anger but for Cho is a pride/boastfulness. Cho told the spiritual traditional hulk monster 'Quiet dude. I'm thinking' when reasoning was needed.
Overall just like people are not the same the way each Hulk version is like is based on the person him/herself. Not Hulk=rage/curse monster only despite the person.
The different negative Hulk versions each has are made by emotional psyche flaws in the individuals and not something shared. Bruce=anger, Jennifer was first fear but after she loved herself and her hulk version she felt empowered and was She-hulk all the time very happy, Cho negative is his pride with just a few times having a anger but even then he had better control. When a part of a small team with other asian americans heroes after CW2 Cho fought a alien space fleet while in raged mode and STILL didn't kill but stop others from killing in rage!

This whole 'must be seen as a curse only and only can be a rage monster type made me upset. It like they are trying to appease the ones who can't comprehend any Hulk versions that isn't a rage only monster but instead of bringing back Banner to fill the rage monster role they put this new trait upon Cho (pleasing nobody from old fans of Bruce to new fans of Cho).
I'm hoping these 'lessons' for future issues of Generations isn't just a sum total of either "be just like me the old guard" or even "I'm forcibly going to show how I'm far superior to the new/old people and they should just quit not carrying my legacy on and or bow before me as I give no respect"! The art was fine and it was a enjoyable issue till the last two pages it seemed.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

[Kurolegacy]

Well, at least it explains why Cho's book is getting rebranded. He no longer thinks of himself as Totally Awesome!

But at the same time, Incredible is still a very positive adjective.

[Thor-Ul]

As we don't know what the "vanishing point" is yet, we still don't know quite where this is taking place. It could be in the past, it could be in a dreamscape of sorts, it could be a pocket dimension. We don't know. Hopefully SE #8 will offer some answers. So I would hold off on assuming "no time travel" was a lie until further info is revealed.

Either way, this was an adequate Hulk romp. Decent, but nothing earth shaking.

As for it cheapening Cho's character to learn a thing or two about being a Hulk from the original Hulk...why would it? Banner's got greater experience. Cho is young and cocky and thinks he has it all figured out. It makes sense for Banner to impart some sobering wisdom Cho's way. And as Cho hasn't had Banner Hulk around to learn from during his superhero career thus far, it's cool that we finally got a Hulk to Hulk meeting that leaves Cho with something to think about. And Banner's line: "We're not heroes, we're prison guards." was especially nice.

And I don't think Cho's Hulk has been exhausted as a character yet in any way. There's still much to explore with him. We'll see if he sticks around. I hope he does.

My one complaint with this issue, aside from it not being clear yet about the mechanics behind these meetings, is that I found it slightly hard at times to differentiate one Hulk from the other and I thought Banner Hulk's reappearance towards the climax was somewhat abrupt and slightly confusing. Other than that, it was a solid read.

Very true. But until now it reads a lot like time travel. If the vanishing point is being revealed like a time travel mechanism, a lot of readers would feel cheated.

[JKtheMac]

I read through this rather quickly, as it wasn't my copy and I am not invested in the Cho Hulk. I will probably catch up with the run on MU later, along with this issue.

I read it mainly to get a handle on what Generations is, and how it will work, and my overriding impression is Generations may end up being quite patchy. The strength of each issue, in what is effectively an anthology, will be the writer's ability to tell an engaging and interesting done-in-one story. Some writes are great at that. I am not convinced that all of the writers due to write an issue of Generations are well suited to that task.

It would seem this mysterious 'vanishing point' is a metatextual device to bring two dissperate heroes from time and space together in a way that effectively considers all stories as happening in an idea space concurrently. Exactly what the mechanism is and how well that works as a concept is secondary to the use Marvel are putting it to.

In this issue that mechanism allows a hero from the past to pass on some insight into his legacy to the current incumbent. My bet is that this won't be the thrust of every story. Information necessarily flows two ways. Indeed, even here I am sure the writer intended information and insight to be passed to Banner, and somehow inform his back story. I really don't know enough about Hulk's canon to judge if Pak pulled this off, but it is a difficult thing to do.

I also got very confused as to which Hulk was which at one point, and I didn't have the time to actually examine the panels for hairstyles and wrist straps. Not sure why they didn't use different speech bubbles. Maybe the confusion is deliberate, I don't know.