Generations: Why Release It Before Secret Empire Finishes?

[Mike_Murdock]

Because it is nothing but a cash grab for nostalgia, it will never be mentioned ever again in any other book.

These books are nothing more than one shots/what if type books in a rushed attempt to grab classic readers who have walked away from

Hulk
Ironman
Thor
Captain America
Wolverine
Jean Grey

after the poor treatment from marvel, they're irrelevant books and not worth the $5.

So I assume you're not one of those people who complained about big summer events since you seem to want these books to essentially be a big event with significant status quo changes as opposed to just telling a good story?

[Jokerz79]

Yes. It seems very much like you could read these without following SE.

While an event in SE facilitates these one-shots, they seem designed to function as self-contained stories without need of too much explanation.

If you have an interest in a specific character, you can read it without reading the other Generation issues or SE itself.



One, you really need to figure out the "Reply With Quote" button.

Two, I find the anger from some fans amusing in that they're mad that the classic characters they like have been out of the spotlight but yet any attempt to bring them back is also met with anger. It's like they have no ability to respond to anything with anything other than resentment and hostility. I assume that many fans want the classic heroes back but when Marvel actually starts heading in that direction, somehow it only makes these people more angry.

Maybe they're just mad that they aren't going to have the same things to complain about anymore.

Or maybe they're just mad that Marvel won't be "punished" for their actions. I feel that part of what incensed some fans about Superior Spider-Man is that Marvel "got away with it." Angry fans were sure that Marvel would feel the wrath of readers for daring to run with that story and that they had ruined Spider-Man forever. But when it not only proved very successful but when Peter eventually returned none the worse for wear, I think it just bugged some people all the more - that their anger proved to be ridiculous in the long run.

Similarly with Legacy, I think fans can sense that when the classic heroes come back and co-exist with their Legacy counterparts, all that fuming anger about heroes being replaced is going to seem like much ado about nothing.

I'm loving DC right now and I hated the New 52. I have no hate for the characters introduced during New 52 but I still hated the whole mess in general. Things are better now to me so celebrate and I complained and showed my displeasure with New 52 with my wallet. That's normal you shouldn't just smile and say thank you may I have another when you dislike a product you speak your piece and hope it changes.

[jackolover]

If these generations one-shots are canon and important then I wonder how Kamala's team-up with a younger Carol is gonna effect her?

That's gonna be the only one I get so I'm pretty interested in how things are gonna go down.

A lot of the themes in Generations is tied to the disenchantment of the legacy characters towards the hero worship of the classical heroes. We look like getting some reconnecting to the classic heroes and a return to respect?

[jackolover]

Money. Plus I think this is to test the fan base. If the books sell then those characters might get a title. Most of the titles will probably stink. But I am buying the titles with the characters I want to have a book.

If you read the story, it's not attempting to showcase Banner/Hulk at all. It makes him out to be this derelict who can change into a rage monster, and would normally kill people. That's not how the classic Hulk was portrayed in the Silver Age. It was a disrespectful way of showing the Hulk so wouldn't attract fans to buy that book.

[Timmyb52]

A lot of the themes in Generations is tied to the disenchantment of the legacy characters towards the hero worship of the classical heroes. We look like getting some reconnecting to the classic heroes and a return to respect?

I think it will lead to the classic heroes {represented as The Old Crazy Right}will regain their "respect" when they have accepted the legacy characters {represented as The Far Left}as being better than them at solving problems {political problems}.Generations will be the symbolic representation of The Right {the classic heroes} being conformed to the thoughts and opinions of the legacy characters {The Left}, and how their problem solving is superior to the old heroes {The Right} way of handling things.Anyhow...that's how I interpret it.It's all just more Pro Far Left leaning messaging.

[nnelg]

If you read the story, it's not attempting to showcase Banner/Hulk at all. It makes him out to be this derelict who can change into a rage monster, and would normally kill people. That's not how the classic Hulk was portrayed in the Silver Age. It was a disrespectful way of showing the Hulk so wouldn't attract fans to buy that book.

I read it. There is still the possibility that this will lead to certain characters getting their books back. I doubt it. But I can't legitimately say I want blank character to have a book if I don't purchase a book with them in it.

[jackolover]

I think it will lead to the classic heroes {represented as The Old Crazy Right}will regain their "respect" when they have accepted the legacy characters {represented as The Far Left}as being better than them at solving problems {political problems}.Generations will be the symbolic representation of The Right {the classic heroes} being conformed to the thoughts and opinions of the legacy characters {The Left}, and how their problem solving is superior to the old heroes {The Right} way of handling things.Anyhow...that's how I interpret it.It's all just more Pro Far Left leaning messaging.

That is a possibility also.

[Prof. Warren]

If you read the story, it's not attempting to showcase Banner/Hulk at all. It makes him out to be this derelict who can change into a rage monster, and would normally kill people. That's not how the classic Hulk was portrayed in the Silver Age. It was a disrespectful way of showing the Hulk so wouldn't attract fans to buy that book.

Not what the story was.

And Banner Hulk was not portrayed simply as a rage monster who would "normally kill people". At the climax, it's Banner Hulk who steps in to forcibly calm down a rampaging Cho.

And Banner was frequently portrayed as living a hobo/vagabond-like existence in both the Silver and Bronze Age (and beyond) so it's no disrespect to show that here. It's a part of his history. A very familiar part of it, not something concocted for the purposes of this issue.

[Haquim]

My problem with "Generations" is the stories feel rather irrelevant and forgettable. It's basically the new characters finding out first hand what it meant for the originals to be the heroes they were but there doesn't seem to be consequences beyond this new awarness.

[Orbus]

I think it will lead to the classic heroes {represented as The Old Crazy Right}will regain their "respect" when they have accepted the legacy characters {represented as The Far Left}as being better than them at solving problems {political problems}.Generations will be the symbolic representation of The Right {the classic heroes} being conformed to the thoughts and opinions of the legacy characters {The Left}, and how their problem solving is superior to the old heroes {The Right} way of handling things.Anyhow...that's how I interpret it.It's all just more Pro Far Left leaning messaging.

Well that's certainly not what the Hulk crossover was. The whole thing was about how Banner saw through Cho's own self delusion, that while more in control than the regular Hulk Cho has the same rage issues and is not as fully in control of his own Hulk (the underlying theme of Totally Awesome Hulk).

In this scenario Banner is the hero and solved the problem by getting through to Amadeus that being the Hulk is a curse and now he wants to get rid of it. Seemingly setting up Cho's exit and Banner being the star of the Incredible Hulk.

I hope I'm wrong on the latter. After all Cho seems to have experienced a boost in sales due to the Weapon-X crossover and it would be a shame if Marvel cancelled the book just as it was catching on but worse Banner who himself has struggled to keep an ongoing in the modern market would probably sell no better on the long run but hardly anyone would care because the goal for those kind of "fans" who see political conspiracies would not care. It's about the books on the shelf making them feel safe.

[Prof. Warren]

My problem with "Generations" is the stories feel rather irrelevant and forgettable. It's basically the new characters finding out first hand what it meant for the originals to be the heroes they were but there doesn't seem to be consequences beyond this new awarness.

It's a little soon to talk about any consequences seeing as these issues have just come out. And only two of them so far, at that.

But as for being "irrelevant and forgettable," while the Hulk issue might fit that description, I thought the Phoenix issue was really quite wonderful. If more Generations issues are like the Phoenix one, I'll be very happy. To me, these are kind of like Annuals. They're not necessarily essential but they're still cool and are worthwhile for fans with an interest in a specific character. I'd be annoyed if there was a connecting tissue that required a reader to buy all ten to get the full story but as they're all self-contained, it's easy enough to stick to which ever ones appeal to you.

[JKtheMac]

It's a little soon to talk about any consequences seeing as these issues have just come out. And only two of them so far, at that.

But as for being "irrelevant and forgettable," while the Hulk issue might fit that description, I thought the Phoenix issue was really quite wonderful. If more Generations issues are like the Phoenix one, I'll be very happy. To me, these are kind of like Annuals. They're not necessarily essential but they're still cool and are worthwhile for fans with an interest in a specific character. I'd be annoyed if there was a connecting tissue that required a reader to buy all ten to get the full story but as they're all self-contained, it's easy enough to stick to which ever ones appeal to you.

I think it is inevitable that a clearer picture will emerge as to what the mechanism is that allows the heroes to meet, but I doubt it will be explored in great detail.

I agree that the Phoenix issue was better, but it is also full of logical problems that leave the reader needing to puzzle out exactly who young Jean travelled to see. I guess those issues have always been there. It depends on interpretation as to how much influence the actual Jean had on the entity that was Jean as Phoenix, and how much Mastermind was encouraging one over the other. I think the consensus is that Jean was only passively watching everything from her cocoon, and that Phoenix wasn't fully aware of the situation. Meaning that Mastermind was unwittingly pushing the self delusion of a cosmic entity into the background, but it always makes my head hurt.

The 'grey area' that the young Jean walks into, with the probability she is talking directly to her nemesis, and not herself from the past, is certainly thematic to her book, and her struggle to prepare for their future encounter. This is at least hinted at in the last panel for those that are keeping up.

Sorry for the bad pun.

[DurararaFTW]

I think it is inevitable that a clearer picture will emerge as to what the mechanism is that allows the heroes to meet, but I doubt it will be explored in great detail.

I agree that the Phoenix issue was better, but it is also full of logical problems that leave the reader needing to puzzle out exactly who young Jean travelled to see. I guess those issues have always been there. It depends on interpretation as to how much influence the actual Jean had on the entity that was Jean as Phoenix, and how much Mastermind was encouraging one over the other. I think the consensus is that Jean was only passively watching everything from her cocoon, and that Phoenix wasn't fully aware of the situation. Meaning that Mastermind was unwittingly pushing the self delusion of a cosmic entity into the background, but it always makes my head hurt.

The 'grey area' that the young Jean walks into, with the probability she is talking directly to her nemesis, and not herself from the past, is certainly thematic to her book, and her struggle to prepare for their future encounter. This is at least hinted at in the last panel for those that are keeping up.

Sorry for the bad pun.

The Phoenix that was with the X-Men acted like Jean in every respect, nothing here changes that. The only change here is the young Jean, who suddenly barraging Jean with exactly the questions that she does not want to know in her solo, to the point of actively avoiding and running away from the Phoenix hosts in favor of seeking out teachers that can tell her to stop it from getting her entirely.

[Dthirds3]

The real reasion is most likley they created generations at last minute after they planned out secreate empire. Marvel saw the fan backlash and DC rebirths sucess so they altered the there plans to make a stop gap for there relaunch in 2018. All legacy and generations are shotty attempts to fix glaring issues that they have without admitting there wrong. Ex old man logan being overused, spiderman becoming iron man, riri fealing like a forced replacment, and trying to kill of the X-Men out of spite. Baring cablesnew direction everything else just had the word legacy tacked on to the title. Marvel is rushing to copy dc but DC planned all this out in advance and were humble were as marvel is in a panic and dosent want to be viewed as ever wrong. Thats why generation came out early marvels in a panic and im scared of some of the idear the'll try to buy time rather then fix there problem.

[JKtheMac]

The Phoenix that was with the X-Men acted like Jean in every respect, nothing here changes that. The only change here is the young Jean, who suddenly barraging Jean with exactly the questions that she does not want to know in her solo, to the point of actively avoiding and running away from the Phoenix hosts in favor of seeking out teachers that can tell her to stop it from getting her entirely.

Just because she acted like Jean, (because let's face it she was Jean until the retcon) does not mean she was Jean, and the final panel here clearly alludes to the fact it isn't Jean. I totally disagree she is asking different questions to her solo book. Everything seems very consistent to me. There is nothing she 'does not want to know' she is in a process of questioning and learning as she goes along. Each person she has met has taken her another step along the road from innocence to knowledge, if not experience.