About Sunspot...

[Spiderfang]

I participated and lurked on this and many other marvel & comic book forums, and I like to think that I take a pretty 50/50 stance with issues regarding comic book characters and what not (i.e. people loving Miles simply because he is a POC and people disliking him for that very reason). So I remember seeing some posts about Sunspot and while I remembered the name I couldn't put a face with it so I googled it and was shocked by what I found...like, I was under the impression (from Google Image Search) that he was two different people, like maybe the first Sunspot had died and a new one took the title (sort of like with Peter Parker/Miles Morales or Hulk/Cho) but no, in his debut he was very clearly black-latino and over the years became somewhat 'hispanic' to ambiguously brown to...???. And coming from someone who has white-knighted a lot of DC/Marvel character changes, I honestly cannot fathom any type of defense that makes sense regarding his de-colorifcation (or more appropriately de-blackification). I mean in the 70's we had Black Panther, Storm, Luke Cage, so why was it felt necessary to change Sunspot so very drastically over the years it did not happen overnight (like with the early Simpsons and black Smithers) and the artists over at Marvel must have had reference sheets if not original prints to draw from so why the drastic change, was it early colorism/afrophobia (that's the only logical answer that makes sense to me)?

[Captain Wessex]

simple answer is shit artists thinking he's Brazilian, so he's brown and then other people stylising it.

[Drops Of Venus]

I think one artist at one early point made a coloring mistake and that mistake ended up being used as a reference so much that it kind of became the standard for the character. And because he wasn't as prominent as Luke Cage, Black Panther and Storm, maybe it just didn't really caught people's eyes.

[Factor]

And now the actor playing him in the movie is white. Marvel and FOX really messed up.

[Fokken]

Just as some artists struggle with drawing that which isn't familiar or that which they do not share characteristics with (children, teens, girls, etc. since most artists on the payroll tend to be males) so too, it would seem, do some COLORISTS struggle with effectively conveying appropriate skin color differentiation among the races. It could be a lack of experience -- they're mastery of shading and/or shaping of the face/body/skin via their palette is limited by their having commonly worked on white characters -- so they're hesitant to "shade" too far outside of their wheelhouse?

Speaking as someone who is continually working at furthering my own capabilities in this arena, I'd LIKE to think that its less ignorance/bias OF the race in question and more a handicap in their skillset -- but one does have to question the legitimacy of the recurrence factor. Perhaps its a simple matter of laziness in their collecting of reference materials? Any number of factors could be the answer -- even blatant white washing.

Additionally, any quality artist worth their salt, with dignity, ought to also take facial features into consideration when depicting characters of a different race. I once worked on a project with some writers from Chicago, and halfway through completing the first issue, they sent me some characters notes indicating that one of the primary characters "is going to be black now so we can diversify the group more" -- to which I argued, I will "have to REDRAW him on every page!!" They argued "Naw man, we'll take care of it with the colorist". KUDOS to the team for wanting to diversify the roster to appeal to a broader audience but ---

The character in question was a 7 foot tall, bald and bearded preacher man who has hydrokinetic powers -- whom I was told was WHITE. He was like a roided out Santa for crying out loud. Therefore, his features were that of a white man. You cannot simply "brown him up" I would argue, because his BEARD alone was not that of a black man. It was not unlike that of a flowing facial MANE one might see on a warrior dwarf in D&D. I refused to continue on the project unless they allowed me to make the necessary aesthetic edits. This stuff matters to people.

ANYHOW...

All that being said I feel his earliest appearances are what folks ought to be referencing FIRST, and perhaps begin a dialogue with the editor from there on regarding accuracy.

[Tycon]

Bless Ewing and Medina (despite initial fanart of the USAvengers #1). But I think we need to hold artists accountable when they whitewash their characters. Or at least if they're gonna do that, accurately represent Roma characters like Scarlet Witch, God Doom, and QS by giving them a browner skin tone.

[Fokken]

Bless Ewing and Medina (despite initial fanart of the USAvengers #1). But I think we need to hold artists accountable when they whitewash their characters. Or at least if they're gonna do that, accurately represent Roma characters like Scarlet Witch, God Doom, and QS by giving them a browner skin tone.

Yeah.
We ought not blame or hold the writer accountable -- Ewing in particular has been a tremendous ally to the diversity movement within Marvel.
I doubt that Ewing or Medina are given much in the way of power to say "This will not be printed!" by the time they see the "ready for print" product, and then there is also the concern about deadlines to be met.

The accuracy lies heavily on the colorist and the editor, imho.

[Spiderfang]

Okay but if it actually is/was (because it happened ages ago) whitewashing as some people suggest then why didn't Marvel whitewash bigger characters like Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage, etc to get their ideology across? Like I'm not a professional color panelist/comic artist so I have little to no idea how the process works aside from taking cues from the editors and basing some things on a "wait and see approach" with the fanbase. But regarding Sunspot it just really seems like they did not want him being Black for whatever reason and it seems very strange that if a whitewashing agenda were indeed at play then why target an obscure supporting character rather than a bigger well-known one (assuming the artist was a white racist, with a white supremacist ulterior motive)?

[Fokken]

Okay but if it actually is/was (because it happened ages ago) whitewashing as some people suggest then why didn't Marvel whitewash bigger characters like Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage, etc to get their ideology across? Like I'm not a professional color panelist/comic artist so I have little to no idea how the process works aside from taking cues from the editors and basing some things on a "wait and see approach" with the fanbase. But regarding Sunspot it just really seems like they did not want him being Black for whatever reason and it seems very strange that if a whitewashing agenda were indeed at play then why target an obscure supporting character rather than a bigger well-known one (assuming the artist was a white racist, with a white supremacist ulterior motive)?

Ignorance?

Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage -- all of those characters are EXCLUSIVELY BLACK. (Okay, I would argue Storm's been lightened a time or two but not to the degree of Mr.Dacosta)

With Mr. DaCosta however -- the DACOSTA is key. Stupid dumbz see that he's somehow, someway "south of the border" and they think "tan" FIRST.
That's my assumption anyhow. They're leaning to heavily into his Brazillian roots and dismissing the fact that he's supposed to be BIracial.

[chamber-music]

Drawing/coloring biracial people is a struggle for some artists. Some artists probably don't even know he is half black.

I don't think I've seen many artists draw him like he looked originally in the comics. In some of Sunspots recent comic appearances he looks like a tan Caucasian guy. He doesn't even have curly hair anymore in some artist depictions.

http://comicsalliance.com/sunspot-ne...-whitewashing/

[Spiderfang]

Ignorance?

Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage -- all of those characters are EXCLUSIVELY BLACK. (Okay, I would argue Storm's been lightened a time or two but not to the degree of Mr.Dacosta)

With Mr. DaCosta however -- the DACOSTA is key. Stupid dumbz see that he's somehow, someway "south of the border" and they think "tan" FIRST.
That's my assumption anyhow. They're leaning to heavily into his Brazillian roots and dismissing the fact that he's supposed to be BIracial.

That's sad and still strikes me as weird.

Drawing/coloring biracial people is a struggle for some artists. Some artists probably don't even know he is half black.

I don't think I've seen many artists draw him like he looked originally in the comics. In some of Sunspots recent comic appearances he looks like a tan Caucasian guy. He doesn't even have curly hair anymore in some artist depictions.

http://comicsalliance.com/sunspot-ne...-whitewashing/

That makes sense and sounds (somewhat) better than an actual racist/whitewashing agenda...like I don't mean to label anyone at Marvel or the company itself racist or even really claim whitewashing as the culprit, but laziness is still a poor excuse considering there must have been original sketches and templates of the character and even back in the 60's/70's people had to realize that there were black-latino & white-latino and asian-latinos living in Brazil so it strikes me as odd the artists/editorial staff would suddenly get lazy and leave out part of his heritage.

[Fokken]

Drawing/coloring biracial people is a struggle for some artists. Some artists probably don't even know he is half black.

I don't think I've seen many artists draw him like he looked originally in the comics. In some of Sunspots recent comic appearances he looks like a tan Caucasian guy. He doesn't even have curly hair anymore in some artist depictions.

http://comicsalliance.com/sunspot-ne...-whitewashing/

Precisely.
Clearly I'm passionate about this topic and I have mad love for Roberto so forgive my continued post after post after post.
But yes.
A lot of folks are just plain ignorant of his ethnicity -- and I say that in a completely "they are simply uninformed" meaning of ignorant rather than the form a lot of people seem used to-- implying intolerance. There's a difference.

Speaking specifically to his hair and its lack of curliness -- at least THAT could be attributed to his vanity/ego, and his desire to look a certain way. He's definitely a primper.

That's sad and still strikes me as weird.

Well yeah. Agreed.

[Midnight_v]

A lot of times I'm quiet about it but its one of those things... Its one of those things that makes me feel like intersectionality is a lie.

Sunspot is a sore spot for me. Few things.
1. Genocide: There essentially a government sponsored genocide of "blacks" in brazil. They want very badly to erase them. Similar to the way mexico has a black population but didn't even acknowledge them on the census until 2016. Race is different in brazil the one-drop rule is not really applicable but at the moment and whats going on there really could use attention and its being being under-reported and ignored it would be an awesome thing to address and draw attention to.

2 The Irony and Indifference
in his first appearance when they told him:

“Your father’s wealth can’t change the color of your skin,” one player taunts. “You’re still black—an animal masquerading as a human being!”
I really identified with this character because... well I was told that once... as a kid... by a teacher in Garland, Texas in the 80's. He and another teacher lied about it later and he didn't use the word black either
words never hold you back unless you let them but I really identified with the character.

However when you bring this up on the x-boards or the gifted thread they pretend youre being unreasonable and say things like "He's BRAZILIAN, PLAYING A BRAZILIAN!" and thats
a big huge glob of spit in my face every-time they say it. I just don't post there. My opinions on that matter are not welcome.
The truth is the idea is frowned upon and them getting a new X-show is enough to make them say "SHUT UP! He's Black enough." which is a thing that I get from many diversity defenders on many fronts when it comes to race.

3. Immortality... lost
There were some number of years that it was determined that Sunspot was an "External" a naturally immortal mutant (the type of thing that Apocalypse and Selene are).
Its the reason his dad was eventually murdered and he was taken under the wing of Gideon (another external) from whom how he learned most of his bushiness acumen or something like that.
So his life had been manipulated by a race of immortal because he was one of them and they needed to bring him into the fold. They started on him when he was young.

Then after a few years of this, "Cable" says to "cannonball" I chose you to lead because you're immortals or will be ...I"m from the future.

I stopped buying that book then. I was really frustrated buy... it, and it really didn't make sense... till I was older and I saw the list of dead black xpeople.

So now he's white now. I guess I should be happy he's not just dead. I'm not. Its just not worth the fight anymore.

I think... sometimes... some clowns gonna go "We wuz externals and shee" the basic idea that I get from most people is
"I'm tired of hearing about race" and sunspot is no exception.

I guess we really couldn't have a rich, Afro-brazillian/black, quasi-immortal, be the go to guy that eventually frontmans Xaviers legacy.

So now he's http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ButNotTooBlack
He's even listed as a trope Example in FULL NOW
S

unspot's skin has been lightened over the years, along with a possible Race Lift. Sunspot is Brazilian, specifically of mixed-race Afro-Brazilian and White Brazilian descent and was drawn with dark skin with wavy hair and black features. As the decades passed, Sunspot's skin has gotten lighter and lighter and now in his appearances in New Avengers and U.S.Avengers make him look like what most Americans think Latino people look like. X-Men: Days of Future Past has Adan Canto (a Mexican actor of mixed Amerindian/White descent) as Sunspot, further complicating the issue. Fox finally cast a Brazilian actor, Henry Zaga, as Sunspot for The New Mutants but he is very light-skinned.

[Techno_Knight]

Or at least if they're gonna do that, accurately represent Roma characters like Scarlet Witch, God Doom, and QS by giving them a browner skin tone.

Or maybe they should stop creating Eastern European characters and then slapping "gypsy" on top of it for extra "tragic origin" points. I don't expect Americans to actually know the way of living here, but I expect atleast enough decency to not get into such things. To portray the natives as villagers from Universal's 1930s Horror Flicks, and the gypsies as "free spirited but opressed people" is a gross mishandling of the situation.

[Digifiend]

When did they last introduce a new Romany character? Magneto, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Doctor Doom all date from the 1960s.