Goku vs Silver Surfer

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

He'd ring himself out doing it.

Would he though ?

I mean he'd come back under his own power, in a way where time wouldn't exactly pass. Has the ring-out rule changed ?

[Bluekey]

And Goku going to the moon as a child. And leaving people there. But even then, Goku simply has no feats of power or Durability that put him anywhere close to Surfer's level. And before anyone starts talking about the fight with Bills, watch episode 13. They cause a third shock wave with colliding ki attacks, the third wave that Old Kai's prediction said would consume the universe a well a Goku and Bills, actually happened. Earth was fine. Goku and Bills were fine. Bills eventually snuffs out the merged energy of the attacks ten minutes later but by then the wave was gone, it passed over them both and the Earth and it was all still there. So was the universe. So yeah, Goku and most DBZ/S characters are somewhere vaguely above planet level, but Surfer no-sells supernovas and the hearts of stars. The only character in that series who has the chops to hurt him is Zenoh, MAYBE Bills on a good day.

Supernovas dont shake the universe. Goku and Beerus fist bumping do, and that was awhile back.

The Anime did the weird waves thing. But the MANGA has the universe depicts as shaking.

Granted Sufer probably still takes it. But not because of his durability.

[BitVyper]

Would he though ?

I mean he'd come back under his own power, in a way where time wouldn't exactly pass. Has the ring-out rule changed ?

As I recall, "coming back under his own power" only counts if he's ringed out against his own will. Voluntarily leaving the ring is a disqualification. In this case, as I understand it, he'd be willingly leaving the ring to absorb an attack.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

As I recall, "coming back under his own power" only counts if he's ringed out against his own will. Voluntarily leaving the ring is a disqualification. In this case, as I understand it, he'd be willingly leaving the ring to absorb an attack.

Ah, true.

I suppose him riding an energy attack would count as voluntarily leaving.

[moonknight11]

He'd ring himself out doing it.

Honestly I'd protest those rules. If he can defensively ride an attack that long it shouldn't count towards a ring out. It's a vital skill. Why screw my boy norrin?

[Syrile Demonthyst]

Honestly I'd protest those rules. If he can defensively ride an attack that long it shouldn't count towards a ring out. It's a vital skill. Why screw my boy norrin?

Sadly, Nightcrawler rings himself out simply by teleporting. -_-

[BitVyper]

Honestly I'd protest those rules. If he can defensively ride an attack that long it shouldn't count towards a ring out. It's a vital skill. Why screw my boy norrin?

I'd say it depends. If he's purposely surfing the attack, he's essentially fleeing it, just in a way that is tactically defensive, and that should fall under a voluntary ring out just the same as it would if he stepped out of the ring to avoid an AoE. If he's just just being smacked out of the ring by the attack, then it's not wilful.

This situation sounds like the former is being suggested as a defensive strategy. Same reason Goku can't just teleport to the afterlife to avoid attacks or something.

Sadly, Nightcrawler rings himself out simply by teleporting. -_-

Yeah I feel like Nightcrawler should have an exemption here, because his power is really just teleportation that happens to operate by moving him through a parallel dimension. The extradimensional stuff is fluff; I say as long as he doesn't somehow attempt to stay there or teleport out of the ring, he should be fine. Otherwise we could start raising arguments about some teleporters technically killing themselves every time they teleport.

[moonknight11]

I'd say it depends. If he's purposely surfing the attack, he's essentially fleeing it, just in a way that is tactically defensive, and that should fall under a voluntary ring out just the same as it would if he stepped out of the ring to avoid an AoE. If he's just just being smacked out of the ring by the attack, then it's not wilful.

This situation sounds like the former is being suggested as a defensive strategy. Same reason Goku can't just teleport to the afterlife to avoid attacks or something.

I'd argue that since he's tanking a bit of the attack but avoiding the rest it does not count as fleeing.

[Cody]

And before anyone starts talking about the fight with Bills, watch episode 13. They cause a third shock wave with colliding ki attacks, the third wave that Old Kai's prediction said would consume the universe a well a Goku and Bills, actually happened. Earth was fine. Goku and Bills were fine. Bills eventually snuffs out the merged energy of the attacks ten minutes later but by then the wave was gone, it passed over them both and the Earth and it was all still there. So was the universe. So yeah, Goku and most DBZ/S characters are somewhere vaguely above planet level, but Surfer no-sells supernovas and the hearts of stars. The only character in that series who has the chops to hurt him is Zenoh, MAYBE Bills on a good day.

This has been explained to you several times, with screenshots of the show outright explaining what happened. This is the second time in this thread alone that you are going against what was seen and said in the show. It wasn't the wave that was stated to destroy the universe, those were just part of the side effects, it was the direct impact of their attacks(first physical impact, then the beam clash). And as the old Kai said, it wasn't finished yet. And the reason everything was fine after it was finished, was because Beerus nulled it, as he said he did. You keep picking and choosing what happens in Dragonball while ignoring the specifics of the events that you cite in order to fit your argument. This is not an honest way to debate, and it just gives the feeling that you don't want to have an honest debate, but just that you want to win.

Again; the waves weren't what was going to destroy the universe. It was stated that the impacts of their physical attacks(which Goku was trying to null before the second impact, then managing to do it by the third first bump), and later their beam clash, was going to destroy the universe. Again, this was said in the anime. And this point has also been brought up to you before several times in other threads as well, so why you keep on distorting what happened, idk, but it isn't helping your case, just destroying your credibility.

[Farealmer]

This has been explained to you several times, with screenshots of the show outright explaining what happened. This is the second time in this thread that you are going against what was seen and said in the show. It wasn't the wave that was stated to destroy the universe, it was the impact. And as the old Kai said, it wasn't finished yet. And the reason everything was fine after it was finished, was because Beerus nulled it. As he said he did. You keep picking and choosing what happens in Dragonball while ignoring the specifics of the events you cite in order to fit your argument. This is not an honest way to debate, and it just gives the message that you don't want to have an honest debate, but just that you want to win.

The waves weren't what was going to destroy the universe. It was the impacts of their physical attacks(which Goku was trying to null before the second impact before managing to do it by the third first bump, and then latter their ki attacks. Again, this was said in the anime. And this point has also been brought up to you before several times as well, so why you keep on distorting what happened, idk but it isn't helping your case just destroying your credibility.

Feats and statements only count for Superman. Even when it's statements from random reporters granting Superman star-busting ability.

[Cody]

He died after that

I thought he was just teleported. It's been presented to me as some sort of feat for him(and him smashing the machine a feat for universal strength):



What really happened exactly? How did he survive it?

[The Dork Knight]

It's a fairly famous anniversary issue of Superman (Action, if we are being pedantic) to show how he had become a pop culture phenomenon. When Superman died at the beginning of time, it altered DC history forever. No superhero existed. Human history was changed forever and humans were conquered by an evil alien race

In this bleak timeline, two young boys Jerry and Joe (wink wink) dream of something better, a man who can fly, who can do anything, who can save them all. And as they scribble down these thoughts and images, the aliens become aware and use that ray you see there to try to kill them

But the boys believe in Superman and others start believing too and thus at the last moment before the ray strikes because they believe....."this is the stuff of stories and fairy tales, of hope and imagination....the stuff dreams are made of.."

If Superman didn't exist someone would have to create him! (This is the actual title of the story)

[The Drunkard Kid]

It's a fairly famous anniversary issue of Superman (Action, if we are being pedantic) to show how he had become a pop culture phenomenon. When Superman died at the beginning of time, it altered DC history forever. No superhero existed. Human history was changed forever and humans were conquered by an evil alien race

In this bleak timeline, two young boys Jerry and Joe (wink wink) dream of something better, a man who can fly, who can do anything, who can save them all. And as they scribble down these thoughts and images, the aliens become aware and use that ray you see there to try to kill them

But the boys believe in Superman and others start believing too and thus at the last moment before the ray strikes because they believe....."this is the stuff of stories and fairy tales, of hope and imagination....the stuff dreams are made of.."

If Superman didn't exist someone would have to create him! (This is the actual title of the story)

That was always weird to me, since a lot of superheros' origins had nothing to do with Superman paving the way for them, or being an example to them. If Clark was never born, nothing would be changed in Hal Jordan's, Batman's, or Wonder Woman's backstories, for example.

[rhyvurg]

Supernovas dont shake the universe. Goku and Beerus fist bumping do, and that was awhile back.

The Anime did the weird waves thing. But the MANGA has the universe depicts as shaking.

Granted Sufer probably still takes it. But not because of his durability.

That was Goku and Bills together, not Goku by himself.

This has been explained to you several times, with screenshots of the show outright explaining what happened. This is the second time in this thread alone that you are going against what was seen and said in the show. It wasn't the wave that was stated to destroy the universe, those were just part of the side effects, it was the direct impact of their attacks(first physical impact, then the beam clash). And as the old Kai said, it wasn't finished yet. And the reason everything was fine after it was finished, was because Beerus nulled it, as he said he did. You keep picking and choosing what happens in Dragonball while ignoring the specifics of the events that you cite in order to fit your argument. This is not an honest way to debate, and it just gives the feeling that you don't want to have an honest debate, but just that you want to win.

Again; the waves weren't what was going to destroy the universe. It was stated that the impacts of their physical attacks(which Goku was trying to null before the second impact, then managing to do it by the third first bump), and later their beam clash, was going to destroy the universe. Again, this was said in the anime. And this point has also been brought up to you before several times in other threads as well, so why you keep on distorting what happened, idk, but it isn't helping your case, just destroying your credibility.

Unless they made significant changes in DBS (they might have) Old Kai's prediction was the shock waves were the thing that was going to reduce the universe to "a white void."

EDIT: Nope, they kept that. Episode 12, six minutes in, Old Kai's prediction was about the shock waves specifically. Their ki attacks caused a third, identical shock wave, but the universe was fine. Old Kai was demonstrably wrong.

[The Dork Knight]

That was always weird to me, since a lot of superheros' origins had nothing to do with Superman paving the way for them, or being an example to them. If Clark was never born, nothing would be changed in Hal Jordan's, Batman's, or Wonder Woman's backstories, for example.

It's more of a commentary on his real world importance. Without Supes, DC Comics and superheroes in general may never have taken off or at least become such an integral part of pop culture . Those early golden age stories were truly groundbreaking and introduced so many of the superhero cliches that have since become a staple of the genre, things like the secret identity etc

And of course in true DC continuity shenanigans style, there have actually been a couple of canon stories tying together origins , like Thomas and Martha Wayne meeting Jor el and Lara