What is the reason many people don't like Duke Thomas

[Aahz]

I'd bloody love to know what the game plan is right now. Despite what people joke (I hope they're joking), being a Batbook doesn't guarantee success. 5/9 of the Bat ongoings right now aren't doing so hot, all of them will be below 20,000 before their 2 year mark and 3 of those will likely be cancelled by that point. Different standards I know, but you can toss Mother Panic in there too if you want. So with that in mind, you'd think they'd want to try new books for their biggest successes outside of Bruce and Dick, who still have demand (and are currently either being sidelined or butchered) but no, they're gonna give a book to Duke based off clearly inflated sales.

I still think that it would make more sense for DC to push the established characters that are struggling (at the moment RHatO and Batgirl) instead side lining them and to promote new ones.

And imo it was a big mistake that they started to introduce new characters (and reintroducing the ones that didn't made it through flashpoint) before "fixing" the ones that were there from the start.

[Assam]

I still think that it would make more sense for DC to push the established characters that are struggling (at the moment RHatO and Batgirl) instead side lining them and to promote new ones.

If you're gonna have a Bat-line, you should have more than 5 books (Super Sons isn't technically a part of it.)

Also, I don't really think a push would do much for those books. Especially in the case of Babsgirl, as I maintain that even with the possibility that better writing could have delayed things, without the multiple factors that allowed the Nu52 book to succeed, this is the best she can do.

And imo it was a big mistake that they started to introduce new characters (and reintroducing the ones that didn't made it through flashpoint) before "fixing" the ones that were there from the start.

And I obviously couldn't disagree with you there more than I do, but I'm sure you knew I'd say that when you wrote this.

[dietrich]

The oddest thing about Snyder's run was how he didn't want to use Damian because his own son was a similar age, but had no problem using a black child in his stories.

I had the same concern.
On the using family thing I just feel Synder isn't/wasn't too keen on writing those types of relationships. It just wasn't his Batman vision or story he was interested in telling just like King right now.

[Aahz]

Also, I don't really think a push would do much for those books. Especially in the case of Babsgirl, as I maintain that even with the possibility that better writing could have delayed things, without the multiple factors that allowed the Nu52 book to succeed, this is the best she can do.

I still think that there would be potential for stronger sales, with a more mature direction and and better writing.

And I obviously couldn't disagree with you there more than I do, but I'm sure you knew I'd say that when you wrote this.

Yupp I knew, but I think it wouldn't have delayed the reintroduction much (or maybe not at all) if they had done that right from the start. Or maybe it could have gone even faster without the new characters (Cass instead of Strix, Steph instead of Harper).

And there were definitely some Batbooks that could have been used for something/someone else (Batwing, Talon, The Dark Knight, Worlds Finest) and Batman Inc. was imo also a concept they could have thrown out with the reboot.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm sorry but this is really funny coming from Snyder.

Is it? For the most part it was not the writers who didn't want to use her but MANAGEMENT who kept her out of books.

Maybe he means if Duke has a book-this would be a place to keep Cass & Stephanie around and definitely PROTECTED form getting tossed away again.

The oddest thing about Snyder's run was how he didn't want to use Damian because his own son was a similar age, but had no problem using a black child in his stories.

There is an age difference between the two. Damian and Snyder's son were 11 and Duke is what 17 now?

And with Duke-you still have his messed up parents and the eventually meeting with Joker over it (without Hal this time).

And DC has to put up a fight for that black teen hero market before Miles & Riri & Moon Girl take it over. Help DC if Wakanda get a teen hero. If Static is nowhere to be seen somebody got to fight those three.

[CPSparkles]

Is it? For the most part it was not the writers who didn't want to use her but MANAGEMENT who kept her out of books.

Maybe he means if Duke has a book-this would be a place to keep Cass & Stephanie around and definitely PROTECTED form getting tossed away again.




There is an age difference between the two. Damian and Snyder's son were 11 and Duke is what 17 now?

And with Duke-you still have his messed up parents and the eventually meeting with Joker over it (without Hal this time).

And DC has to put up a fight for that black teen hero market before Miles & Riri & Moon Girl take it over. Help DC if Wakanda get a teen hero. If Static is nowhere to be seen somebody got to fight those three.

Pretty sure Duke wasn't 17 back then and Synder's son was 7 when he made that statement.

[DragonPiece]

The oddest thing about Snyder's run was how he didn't want to use Damian because his own son was a similar age, but had no problem using a black child in his stories.

He had a problem specifically writing TEN year olds like Damian, who is a very different character from Duke, who thinks before he goes into things and is more serious about what he is getting into beforehand.

And it seems like Snyder is over it now, since he's been writing Damian in Metal.

[millernumber1]

I still think that it would make more sense for DC to push the established characters that are struggling (at the moment RHatO and Batgirl) instead side lining them and to promote new ones.

And imo it was a big mistake that they started to introduce new characters (and reintroducing the ones that didn't made it through flashpoint) before "fixing" the ones that were there from the start.

Creators get financially rewarded if they invent characters. I really think that's a big part of why Snyder does it. Not for the money, per se, but because it's something he's added to the legend.

The oddest thing about Snyder's run was how he didn't want to use Damian because his own son was a similar age, but had no problem using a black child in his stories.

Pretty sure Duke wasn't 17 back then and Synder's son was 7 when he made that statement.

He had a problem specifically writing TEN year olds like Damian, who is a very different character from Duke, who thinks before he goes into things and is more serious about what he is getting into beforehand.

And it seems like Snyder is over it now, since he's been writing Damian in Metal.

Damian is 13 now, and I think that's why Snyder's using him in Metal. But the age thing is the big issue. He deliberately made Duke of an age where he wouldn't be feeling those things about his son. Though I'd be very interested to see what happens when Snyder's kids are in their teens, if he starts feeling differently.

[Aioros22]

I still think that it would make more sense for DC to push the established characters that are struggling (at the moment RHatO and Batgirl) instead side lining them and to promote new ones.

And imo it was a big mistake that they started to introduce new characters (and reintroducing the ones that didn't made it through flashpoint) before "fixing" the ones that were there from the start.

That is a weak excuse to me. They should promote Ratho on its own merit and Jason's and often they dont but theres no way I use that fact as means to stop new characters in. Its their job to work multiple books.

They should award popularity regardless of the new toys and vice versa.

[SmokeMonster]

I get the sense that Snyder's enthusiasm for Harper and Duke was simply an enthusiasm to include an alt bat family member and a black bat family member, more so than an enthusiasm for specific stories/drama/personalities, etc.

[skyvolt2000]

Creators get financially rewarded if they invent characters. I really think that's a big part of why Snyder does it. Not for the money, per se, but because it's something he's added to the legend.

There is no guarantee you will see Duke once Snyder leaves. We saw what happened to Cain & Brown.

And I don't think all these guys get paid for usage in some cases.

I mean would it be bigger to take an established guy that many have struggled with and build him up? And save Duke for a new life at say Image?

We have a Back Panther movie because of what Priest did in 1998. When Panther's own creator could not get him to sell. Priest who had NO interest in Panther started an 11 year run of solos. We have gone only 5 years without a Panther ongoing. What POC at DC can say that? Only Cyborg & Static can boast a second volume.

I will put it to you like this who would expect a movie out of if DC wanted to do one beyond Bruce, Dick, Harley & Babs?

Cassandra
Stephanie
Luke Fox Batwing
Duke

Or

Static
Duke-even if you toss in Batman

Especially if you are trying to counter Miles Parker Morales or Ms Marvel.

[oasis1313]

I get the sense that Snyder's enthusiasm for Harper and Duke was simply an enthusiasm to include an alt bat family member and a black bat family member, more so than an enthusiasm for specific stories/drama/personalities, etc.

I think that every writer gets partial to their own "babies" that they brought into the world.

[Yonekunih]

He was fine in We're Robin. In Rebirth, not so great for me.

[VolcanikTiger86]

I think they should reduce it, to the Robins, Batgirl and maybe Catwoman and/or Batwoman.

Ok hear me out so would your family be something like This
Males: Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damien and Alfred – 6
Females Selina, Barbara, Cassandra, Stephaine – 4
That would be ten, not sure how I feel about Batwing in the family however I know I wouldn’t mind
Kate & Bette Kane however I don’t like Azrael or Clayface

I kind of miss the time when there was actually some coordination between the Batbooks (ok that was probaly mostly Chuck Dixon wrote most of them), the writers should at least keep track of what happens with the characters in their main books, I'm ok if they ignore team books like Titans (unless the character doesn't have another book).

Ditto

I also find it kind of wired that King writes him allready as a brother of the Robins, without any build up.

Which was my point telling us he is a brother which out showing us why.

Isn't that pretty much what we have now? Look at Volkanik's list (where I'm now seeing they wrote "Cassie Chan." I was unaware that there was a Power Ranger in the Batfamily). A few characters have 'solos' (Bruce, Dick, Jason, Damian, Kate, Babs (2 in her case)), a bunch of them are all in 'Tec (the crowdedness of which is an entirely separate issue) a few of them appear in the books of other characters (Selina, Julia and Alfred), a few of them have only been appearing sporadically (Claire, Bette and Harper) and we don't know where Duke is gonna end up once his mini is over.

I'd love to see a shake up in the Bat-line as while I like it more than I did at (almost) every point between 2006 and 2016, it's still in a pretty sad and sorry state, but the fault doesn't lie with the characters.

Sorry Typo – I think they could do with trimming some of the characters.

[Aahz]

Ok hear me out so would your family be something like This
Males: Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damien and Alfred – 6
Females Selina, Barbara, Cassandra, Stephaine – 4
That would be ten, not sure how I feel about Batwing in the family however I know I wouldn’t mind
Kate & Bette Kane however I don’t like Azrael or Clayface

Yeah roughly, 10 might actually already a little much if you really want to do all of them justice, but they are imo the ones that are by far the most popular.
And IMO it would make more sense for DC to try to keep them popular or expand their fanbase, than to build up new characters and neglect the existing ones.