What is the reason many people don't like Duke Thomas

[Barbatos666]

Popularity can be boosted by a myraid of factors though. DC repushed Duke after WAR with a new hook. That said I dont think the Signal gimmick despite getting far more effort creatively and publishing wise can ever top Robin which was the initial gimmick they used.
Duke's best chance is to be integrated as a worthy supporting character. He's not solo material.

[Agent Z]

It doesn't help when a lot of artists seem to think there's only one available haircut (this goes for Marvel too).



Can't say I agree with you there. There's definitely a lack of them, but would you ever say that Cass is very similar to Kimiyo? Katana to Traci 13? DC's problem is just that most of their Asian female characters currently aren't around.

There is now a trio of Asian teenage girls all raised by assassins, but at the same time, that's mostly the only thing they have in common and they're otherwise very different.



I joked about this a couple days ago for a reason. First issue sold about 52,000, second issue dropped down to 31,000 and even with a bump in the middle from Robin War, it was still down to 14,000 by issue 12. It showed exactly how popular he is on his own.

Who are the other two Asian girls raised to be assassins?

[Aahz]

Can't say I agree with you there. There's definitely a lack of them, but would you ever say that Cass is very similar to Kimiyo? Katana to Traci 13? DC's problem is just that most of their Asian female characters currently aren't around.

There are some that are different, but there is alot martial artists/assassins, alot of them aren't that talkative, and they were often raised from birth to be assassins.

Cassandra Cain, Shadow, Katana, the second Judomaster, Sin, Emiko (and very likely some more). I mean there are differences between them but not much thematic variation.

That might of course also be kind of a subjective impression due to the series I read (I don't think I have read much with Tracy and Kimiyo in it).

There is now a trio of Asian teenage girls all raised by assassins, but at the same time, that's mostly the only thing they have in common and they're otherwise very different.

Cass, Emiko and who else?

[Assam]

There are some that are different, but there is alot martial artists/assassins, alot of them aren't that talkative, and they were often raised from birth to be assassins.

Cassandra Cain, Shadow, Katana, the second Judomaster, Sin, Emiko (and very likely some more). I mean there are differences between them but not much thematic variation. That might of course also be kind of a subjective impression due to the series I read (I don't think I have read much with Tracy and Kimiyo in it).

Of those you mentioned, Cass, Katana, Emi and Judomaster are the only capes, the latter being one we'll both probably never see again outside of cameos, and I should mention that her not being talkative was a retcon by Johns. Of those four, there's very little in common personality wise. If there was, how could Cass be my all time fave, while I don't care at all about Tatsu and Judomaster?

Also, there's more than than Traci and Kimiyo as well. Grace Choi, Element Woman, Avery and Deilan of the JLC, etc.

Who are the other two Asian girls raised to be assassins?

Cass, Emiko and who else?

Rose Wilson. She's Hmong.

[Barbatos666]

Who are the other two Asian girls raised to be assassins?

Emiko, Rose, does Talia also count?

[Assam]

Talia also count?

Talia isn't a hero OR a teenager.

[Aahz]

Of those you mentioned, Cass, Katana, Emi and Judomaster are the only capes,

Shado uses at least in the late 80s early 90s to work with Green Arrow.

and I should mention that her not being talkative was a retcon by Johns

But JSA was iirc the biggestr role she had (I can't remeber her getting any focus in Birds of Prey). Katana also used to be different back in the original Outsiders, but the current version has not much of that left.

Also, there's more than than Traci and Kimiyo as well. Grace Choi, Element Woman, Avery and Deilan of the JLC, etc.

To be honest I have no idea who the last 3 are, and in case of Tracy, Grace and Rose I keep forgetting that they are Asian.

[Assam]

Shado uses at least in the late 80s early 90s to work with Green Arrow.

And Eddie Fyers worked with Ollie and Connor as their primary ally in the 90's. I love Eddie, but I wouldn't classify him as a cape.

But JSA was iirc the biggestr role she had (I can't remeber her getting any focus in Birds of Prey).

True, but it isn't as if she got A LOT of focus there. Like I said, we'll probably never see her again outside of cameos.

To be honest I have no idea who the last 3 are, and in case of Tracy, Grace and Rose I keep forgetting that they are Asian.

The former part plays into DC not having many prominent Asian characters (although I personally love Avery and Deilan AKA Flash and Wonder-Woman) and the latter part is on you.

[oasis1313]

I mean, didn't we are robin sales already show how popular he was by himself pretty much.

Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, and a WHOLE bunch of OTHER characters were in that book. Some people might have bought We Are Robin for one or all of them. No, Duke needs his own SOLO title with nobody around to steal the spotlight off him. His popularity can't be gauged unless he is free of other baggage, like having Batman littering up his book.

[millernumber1]

I joked about this a couple days ago for a reason. First issue sold about 52,000, second issue dropped down to 31,000 and even with a bump in the middle from Robin War, it was still down to 14,000 by issue 12. It showed exactly how popular he is on his own.

Yup. And it's not even Duke selling on his own - it's selling on the Robin name, which is probably the third most powerful name for sales in a Batfamily book ever (Batman is first, Nightwing second, Robin third).

I have nothing against selling on legacy, but Duke's current trajectory is all about spitting on legacy, unless we get a fourth massive course correction which gives a healthier relationship with the Robin and Batman legacy.

Popularity can be boosted by a myraid of factors though. DC repushed Duke after WAR with a new hook. That said I dont think the Signal gimmick despite getting far more effort creatively and publishing wise can ever top Robin which was the initial gimmick they used.
Duke's best chance is to be integrated as a worthy supporting character. He's not solo material.

DC repushed Duke with a Snyder backup and a tiny, tiny role in King's Batman, and they clearly changed course after a year, and tried to repush him again into this Metal spinoff. It's one of the most terribly course-correcting pushes I've seen in quite a while.

Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, and a WHOLE bunch of OTHER characters were in that book. Some people might have bought We Are Robin for one or all of them. No, Duke needs his own SOLO title with nobody around to steal the spotlight off him. His popularity can't be gauged unless he is free of other baggage, like having Batman littering up his book.

The four veteran Robins were only in the one crossover issue of Robin War. We Are Robin was a team book, but all of the teammates were probably just as low in awareness as Duke (possibly even more). Except for Leslie Thompkins, who got two issues. But I don't think people actually bought the book for her.

[Aioros22]

Does not matter he still has 100 issues.

It's not any character's fault times have changed to where we see the behavior Marvel has dealt with.

In the past no one cared who had a book. It was read what you want and I will read what I want.

Now entitlement has taken over and now guys who could have books can't get them because someone feels entitled to demand that book not be made.

Funny how we get more posts trashing Duke, Moon Girl, Ms Marvel, Riri Williams, Cho Hulk & Miles than praising Tom King's Mister Miracle or Vision.

Funny we can get more folks to hate buy books TRASHING their favorites (while setting fire to others on youtube) than support for books "doing" it right.

Interwebs facilitated world comunication and brought other cool facilities but it has also created a monster. We`re at large an entitled audience. A bunch of boobs if you will.

I supported and will continue to do so, Marvel`s diverse line of titles, characters and artwork. I rather have different tastes to experiment on than the same old broken status-quo.

[skyvolt2000]

Popularity can be boosted by a myraid of factors though. DC repushed Duke after WAR with a new hook. That said I dont think the Signal gimmick despite getting far more effort creatively and publishing wise can ever top Robin which was the initial gimmick they used.
Duke's best chance is to be integrated as a worthy supporting character. He's not solo material.

And I am sure that was said about a lot of others including Tim, Dick & Jason.

A lot of issues happen when you try to build up a guy to be a solo act.

1) Support from the company. See Green Lantern. Every Human Lantern not named John Stewart boasts a run longer than 18 issues. Editorial derailed John Stewart among others. Yet that franchise has been held hostage by trying to force everyone to like one guy. When many don't care for him including kids who would rather see Kyle, Guy & John more. Jessica & Simon are slowly moving up that list.

2) Getting more than one shot-see Carol whatshername. Or trying to find that right voice see Supergirl & Black Panther. Heck toss in Aquaman, Batgirls, Harley and even Falcon.

3) consistent USAGE-why did Storm & Cyborg's solo tank versus Falcon. You saw the later in supporting roles, b stories, one shots, solos in Marvel Comics Presents and a few minis. So either as Falcon or Cap Falcon-you know everything about Sam Wilson. He was more than background fodder, bedroom fodder, pin up fodder, stuck in the same story, den mother/father, watchdog and other nonsense you see with Storm, Cyborg, John Stewart and post JSA Micheal Holt.

Like Millernumber1 said this is the worst done PUSH DC has done since Cyborg.

We got 3 versions of Duke.

The first one-who should be Damian's age not an aged up teenager.

The WAR version-who would not even bother with Batman's offer to be the Signal. In fact he was in the vein of New 52 Wally West with issues (ie getting locked up and kicked out of schools)

The Rebirth version-who should have been the one we saw after Endgame.

[Barbatos666]

And I am sure that was said about a lot of others including Tim, Dick & Jason.

A lot of issues happen when you try to build up a guy to be a solo act.

1) Support from the company. See Green Lantern. Every Human Lantern not named John Stewart boasts a run longer than 18 issues. Editorial derailed John Stewart among others. Yet that franchise has been held hostage by trying to force everyone to like one guy. When many don't care for him including kids who would rather see Kyle, Guy & John more. Jessica & Simon are slowly moving up that list.

2) Getting more than one shot-see Carol whatshername. Or trying to find that right voice see Supergirl & Black Panther. Heck toss in Aquaman, Batgirls, Harley and even Falcon.

3) consistent USAGE-why did Storm & Cyborg's solo tank versus Falcon. You saw the later in supporting roles, b stories, one shots, solos in Marvel Comics Presents and a few minis. So either as Falcon or Cap Falcon-you know everything about Sam Wilson. He was more than background fodder, bedroom fodder, pin up fodder, stuck in the same story, den mother/father, watchdog and other nonsense you see with Storm, Cyborg, John Stewart and post JSA Micheal Holt.

Like Millernumber1 said this is the worst done PUSH DC has done since Cyborg.

We got 3 versions of Duke.

The first one-who should be Damian's age not an aged up teenager.

The WAR version-who would not even bother with Batman's offer to be the Signal. In fact he was in the vein of New 52 Wally West with issues (ie getting locked up and kicked out of schools)

The Rebirth version-who should have been the one we saw after Endgame.

That's all good but Duke isn't comparable to any of those characters. He had support from the Bat office and Snyder, still does. Its clear that influential parties want him to be a thing and have given it their all to make that happen.
Tim Drake at this point of his existence really broke out while Damian was starring in the hit Batman and Robin.

[Assam]

2) Getting more than one shot-see Carol whatshername. Or trying to find that right voice see Supergirl & Black Panther. Heck toss in Aquaman, Batgirls, Harley and even Falcon.

Double checked comicvine on these, but from what I'm seeing, Carol, Supergirl and Black Panther are the good examples here, all of their first solos lasting less than two years, but finding great success at a later point. Even if it was a different Supergirl who showed the brand could sell and these days Carol can't sell for crap. The others though? Aquaman's first book lasted a LONG time. He definitely went through a rough patch after that until the PAD run, but he'd still proven himself on his first go. Batgirl Vol.1 is still the most successful Batgirl book to date, Harley's first solo lasted a not too shabby for the 2000's 4 years and the current Falcon book, which is bombing for multiple reasons I'm sure you and I can think of, is the first ongoing Falcon series there's actually been; prior to this all there was was the excellent Priest penned mini.

[oasis1313]

Popularity can be boosted by a myraid of factors though. DC repushed Duke after WAR with a new hook. That said I dont think the Signal gimmick despite getting far more effort creatively and publishing wise can ever top Robin which was the initial gimmick they used.
Duke's best chance is to be integrated as a worthy supporting character. He's not solo material.

If he's as popular as claimed, he should easily be able to carry a solo title on his own.