What is the reason many people don't like Duke Thomas

[Agent Z]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH BLACK LIGHTNING? There was your diversity there. When his comic was out in 1995, no one cared! Why? It's not like he was boring as Duke Thomas. This is the problem, when there are already diverse characters, you didn't care for either Black Lightning nor Steel which was more interesting than Duke Thomas. Who cares if not one single Bat character is not Black. Wait, Bat-Wing and no one cared. Oh my god! GOD! This is annoying!

There isn't anything wrong with Black Lightning or Steel. They just aren't Batman characters as Assam pointed out and are therefore irrelevant to this conversation.

[Aahz]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH BLACK LIGHTNING? There was your diversity there.

But he isn't really a Batman character. He was created as a solo character, and is actually from Metropolis and not from Gotham.

And while Batman founded the Outsiders, they were never an important part of the Batman mythos. He was basically just put on the title to give the series a push for the start.

[rev516]

Duke's a boring, uninteresting character that brings nothing to the table. That, and the fact he's being pushed in favor and at the expense of other popular, fan-favourite characters just because he's Scott Snyder's pet is what makes me actively dislike him.

quoted for the supreme truth

[rev516]

It's less of a problem with the Duke character himself and more of a problem with Snyder as a writer. Harper Row was the EXACT same thing. Some Mary-Sue "awesome amazing fan-favorite SJW perfect genius crimefighter" character that Snyder created and immediately pushed onto the readers as hard as he could. He dropped her when he realized that she wasn't actually a fan-favorite and no matter how great he said she was the readers wouldn't embrace her.

He failed with Harper and started trying again with Duke, but more aggressively this time by completely pushing Damian out of the Batbooks. Tim Drake already felt superfluous in the New 52, but Snyder had to push it a few steps further by creating a few more characters to flood the Batfamily even more. He's desperate to leave a permanent mark on Batman lore and instead of doing it through timeless storytelling he's trying to force his pet characters to be loved and embraced by the fans.

In reality, Duke, like Harper before him, is bland, generic, boring, and completely unnecessary. He's needlessly "replacing" an established and well-liked character in Damian, who is completely MIA in the Batbooks and got shipped off to the Titans because Snyder didn't want to include him. The Batbooks desperately need new life and talent, and a head writer who will embrace the existing Batfamily and try to tell great stories with them rather than shipping them off in favor of their pet characters.

Another quote for truth

[J. D. Guy]

This thread should have you covered:

http://community.comicbookresources....ut-Duke-Thomas

Yeah, we really don't need another "Duke Hate thread poorly disguised as a civil discussion thread".

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that this thread was a deliberate troll attempt.

[Katana500]

Yeah, we really don't need another "Duke Hate thread poorly disguised as a civil discussion thread".

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that this thread was a deliberate troll attempt.

Poor Duke. Hopefully his mini series will change some peoples minds.

[Godlike13]

They are not giving enough reasons for readers to like him. They can put a Bat symbol on his chest, and escrima sticks in his hands, but there needs to be more then just a hodgepodge of Bat paraphernalia and a safe personality.

[BFF]

Ah jeez, I haven't been tuned into Rebirth much, last I heard they had basically retired her. I guess Snyder and his team think if they just keep pushing eventually she'll become the "fan favorite" they advertised her as.

The fundamental problem that Snyder and Tynion and his team don't understand is that compelling characters don't start off being completely perfect and amazing and instantly loved. Compelling characters are flawed, and improve upon their flaws (compelling characters are never absolutely perfect) over the course of their story, and begin to earn respect and love through actions and personality.

Ex: Damian Wayne. Morrison introduced him absolutely packed with flaws and everyone's immediate reaction was "This psychopathic dickhead twerp is supposed to be Batman's son?? Hell nah." then over time we started to see the likable side of Damian come out, and through actions the fans embraced him and he became a legitimate fan-favorite. He wasn't just thrown onto the page with some interviews telling us he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and we should love him and read his new comic book.

Nice post. Another example of doing things right is Kong Kenan over in New Super-man.

[MajorHoy]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH BLACK LIGHTNING? There was your diversity there. When his comic was out in 1995, no one cared!

Hey, I was buying his book when it was originally published back in 1977!

Yeah, we really don't need another "Duke Hate thread poorly disguised as a civil discussion thread".

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that this thread was a deliberate troll attempt.

And I'll guess you're probably wrong about that since the thread was created on the general DC Comics section of the Forum and was later relocated to the Batman section of the forum.

Moved: What is the reason many people don't like Duke Thomas
Started by Random4, Today 12:42 PM

[portland_breakers101]

But he isn't really a Batman character. He was created as a solo character, and is actually from Metropolis and not from Gotham.

And while Batman founded the Outsiders, they were never an important part of the Batman mythos. He was basically just put on the title to give the series a push for the start.

Black Lightning was on a Batman based team called Batman and the Outsiders and came there in 1983 as a team member whereas Batman was a leader to his own mini Justice League for himself. That's what I referred to Batman and the Outsiders; as a Batman Justice League with his own chosen roster.

[portland_breakers101]

Hey, I was buying his book when it was originally published back in 1977!



And I'll guess you're probably wrong about that since the thread was created on the general DC Comics section of the Forum and was later relocated to the Batman section of the forum.

YAY!!! Good. They can make good stories with him if they even tried. Hell, I rather he would of been on Justice League instead of John Stewart and put Kyle and Black Lightning on the team with the front.

[skyvolt2000]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH BLACK LIGHTNING? There was your diversity there. When his comic was out in 1995, no one cared! Why? It's not like he was boring as Duke Thomas. This is the problem, when there are already diverse characters, you didn't care for either Black Lightning nor Steel which was more interesting than Duke Thomas. Who cares if not one single Bat character is not Black. Wait, Bat-Wing and no one cared. Oh my god! GOD! This is annoying!

Folks did CARE-however the EDITOR for that book didn't and get Tony Isabella removed.

Yes you have more interesting black heroes-the issue has always been USAGE or someone in charge not caring for them.

Also an attitude change has to happen at DC-you can't get mad if folks like certain characters more than others.

You can't bury John Stewart to make Hal look good. Same with Wally & Barry.

You can't toss out Cyborg with no support and wonder why he can't sell.

Why is it a battle to find someone that can do something with Steel or BL?

I would love for D.C. Minority characters to sell as well and become as noteworthy as Black Panther/Miles Mirales/Ms Marvel but Duke is gonna end up selling as low if not worse than Cyborg if he had an ongoing, a mini may give you false sales numbers.

They succeed along with even Falcon, Moon Girl and others (especially in trades) because they are not viewed as THREATS to others.

As long as they bring the check home-Marvel doesn't care.

Take Miles-despite backlash-who is laughing to the bank?

We got a movie, a new teen novel that is NUMBER ONE Teen books and top 10 in two others and top 60 in another category and it's rumor the book is a New York Times bestseller. He will bypass all DC black lead solos in issue numbers in November. He got the support and push CYBORG should have had.

DC has to get that way.

Synder has done everything in his power to alienate him from fans of the other BatFamily members, both as a group and on an individual level. Examples of this are the "Better than Robin" idea, being as Bruce's side instead of Damian (emphasized by the upcoming Batman and the Signal ) and his being pushed so heavily over the other, far more popular and beloved teens of the BatFam, Cass, Steph and Tim.

Is that HIM or is it management? All three of those have been targets of folks in charge. Fan support was NEVER an issue for them especially outside of comics. Like Wally & John Stewart-SOMEBODY didn't care for them.

Cass & Stephanie were deem TOXIC and edited out of books. Tim has stayed in badly done books worst than Static, Conner, Cassie & Bart.

SO if I see all that MESS-why would I bother with those guys? I would not want to put up with the crap that McDuffie, Rozum, Isabella and so many others dealt with on books with characters someone HIGHER up didn't care for.


As for this push BS-before Dark Metal-he was barely in Batman books. How does 110 pages out of 2000+ between Rebirth Batman, All Star Batman & Detective Comics equal push?

If you took him out and put Damian in his spot and ended up with only 110 pages of appearances-how is that better? That's not development. That is wall paper.

Also remember Duke's story was suppose to be in All Star-it was everybody's he can do no wrong JOHNS who wanted it told in Metal. So if you got an issue with it-take it up with Johns but you will have to wait as the line of gripes with him in long.

[skyvolt2000]

Poor Duke. Hopefully his mini series will change some peoples minds.

That is NOT going to happen. He like Moon Girl, Sam Alexander & Inhumans are forever enemies to some folks. The best bet is that trade of said mini does well outside of comic book stores-who have been boycotting Duke since day one.

Hey, I was buying his book when it was originally published back in 1977!

I got that run and the 1995 run. Along with the 2009 mini and 1977 trade releases.

[Mr HardKnocks]

Well, this quickly was dwindled down to race. I recognize some people believe Duke is here simply because he's black. But depending on what happens in his mini series we can decide. People can have their own opinions on whether or not he's boring, but to say that his presence is shafting other characters is an overstatement. There dozens of characters that have and are being shafted by DC, not just the Bat Family. Attacking Duke isn't going to change anything, if you have no interest simply don't buy the mini series.

[Assam]

Also remember Duke's story was suppose to be in All Star-it was everybody's he can do no wrong JOHNS who wanted it told in Metal. So if you got an issue with it-take it up with Johns but you will have to wait as the line of gripes with him in long.

I went on a rant about this a week or so ago in the John Stewart thread, but believe me, I sure as Hell don't let Johns of the hook for the literal dozens of characters he's killed, assassinated and/or sidelined.