Is anyone feeling broken up due to the demise of Parker Industries?

[Carabas]

It would seem you are bored of the "everyman" concept that is at the core of Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

I do not believe there is an everyman concept at the core of Spider-Man. Peter Parker is extraordinary in everything he does.

[DieHard200904]

I do not believe there is an everyman concept at the core of Spider-Man. Peter Parker is extraordinary in everything he does.

I don't think anyone of us could really agree what makes an everyman anyways.

[Gnarlly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY4gTlJ0Rt4
"Spider-man is the Marvel Universe's Everyman. We look at Peter Parker through the years, what he represents, and how he's changed through the movie franchises. . ."

[Carabas]

"Spider-man is the Marvel Universe's Everyman...".

Just repeating it a few thousand times does not make it true.

[WebLurker]

Just repeating it a few thousand times does not make it true.

That assumes that it was false in the first place.

[Huntsman Spider]

But taking less pay is what, IMO, CEOs should do. I hate seeing big corporations cutting the lower people from their jobs while their CEOs make insane amounts of money, then arguing that they have to cut the jobs.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. As for the everyman argument, I think that in a way is kind of selling the everyman short. If Peter being an "everyman" means he's doomed to never truly grow or progress as a character, that he's always gonna be locked into that particular box where he can never have any long-term success in his life, then that sells both him and the everyman short. It's saying that ordinary people can't or shouldn't really hope or strive to achieve some kind of success in their lives because they're just not part of that unique and special class that gets to succeed in life. What kind of message is that to send?

[Carabas]

That assumes that it was false in the first place.

He's a low-level superscientist.
He's the unluckiest person who ever lived.
He was a 15 year old kid was briefly a pro-wrestler and who worked for a proper newspaper.
He has never even met a woman who couldn't be a supermodel.
He lives with his 105 year old aunt.
The devil himself took a personal interest in his love life.
His parents were SHIELD agents (I do not know if they still were, but they were at some point in continuity).
He's an orphan with three dead parents.

And that is without going into the whole 'he's a frelling superhero' thing.

What is everyman about this?

[Carabas]

I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. As for the everyman argument, I think that in a way is kind of selling the everyman short. If Peter being an "everyman" means he's doomed to never truly grow or progress as a character, that he's always gonna be locked into that particular box where he can never have any long-term success in his life, then that sells both him and the everyman short. It's saying that ordinary people can't or shouldn't really hope or strive to achieve some kind of success in their lives because they're just not part of that unique and special class that gets to succeed in life. What kind of message is that to send?

That's not being an everyman. That's being a Marvel/DC superhero who lives in the land where status quo is god.
It applies as much to Peter Parker as it does to Bruce Wayne.

[Huntsman Spider]

That's not being an everyman. That's being a Marvel/DC superhero who lives in the land where status quo is god.
It applies as much to Peter Parker as it does to Bruce Wayne.

Yes, except Bruce Wayne's status quo is that he's incredibly wealthy through the company he inherited from his parents, which he's used to fund his crime-fighting endeavors, and incredibly, nearly superhumanly competent in damn near everything he sets his mind toward doing, so much so that he outwits and outfights not just metahumans, but aliens, demons, and even possibly gods. Peter Parker's status quo is that he's persistently unlucky and unsuccessful, not merely because his heroic obligations take precedence over his civilian life and he has a hard time balancing his responsibilities in both identities, but because that's just how life and the universe work for him. One status quo is of borderline superhuman competence that leads to incredible success and respect in both identities, whereas the other status quo is that of constant misfortune and setbacks that leads to not just not exactly being respected in both identities, but being actively persecuted in one and treated with disdain in the second. The other is the status quo that Marvel associates with being or representing the "everyman," which factors into the question of my earlier post: The hell kind of message is that to send to the mostly ordinary people who read and/or buy Spider-Man comics?

[Gnarlly]

Yes, except Bruce Wayne's status quo is that he's incredibly wealthy through the company he inherited from his parents, which he's used to fund his crime-fighting endeavors, and incredibly, nearly superhumanly competent in damn near everything he sets his mind toward doing, so much so that he outwits and outfights not just metahumans, but aliens, demons, and even possibly gods. Peter Parker's status quo is that he's persistently unlucky and unsuccessful, not merely because his heroic obligations take precedence over his civilian life and he has a hard time balancing his responsibilities in both identities, but because that's just how life and the universe work for him. One status quo is of borderline superhuman competence that leads to incredible success and respect in both identities, whereas the other status quo is that of constant misfortune and setbacks that leads to not just not exactly being respected in both identities, but being actively persecuted in one and treated with disdain in the second. The other is the status quo that Marvel associates with being or representing the "everyman," which factors into the question of my earlier post: The hell kind of message is that to send to the mostly ordinary people who read and/or buy Spider-Man comics?

Is Peter's Everyman life really that bad? He is loved/liked/respected by his family and friends, he went to college, he is able to pay his bills and live fairly comfortably through a variety of interesting jobs (he is rarely broke or destitute any more), he even married a supermodel who was a loving wife after dating other knockouts. Yes the marriage was taken away, and yes things don't come as easy for him as Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark, but I think you are casting him in too negative of a light. Despite a lot of tragedy in his life, he seems much more grounded and down to earth than Bruce Wayne and other comic book alter ego characters.

[blackspidey2099]

It would seem you are bored of the "everyman" concept that is at the core of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. Going back to it would be a welcome return in my opinion, as that is how the character has been defined over decades, and why many of us choose to follow the character.

sigh

I think you, and everyone else who keeps harping on the word "everyman" really needs to realize that repeating something incessantly doesn't make it true. Whether or not Peter owns a successful company, he is still the dude who hacked Tony Stark with ease, has an IQ higher than anyone who has ever existed in real life, matched intelligence with Reed Richards, married/dated a supermodel/B-List celebrity for a long while, published a successful book, has parents who were super spies and a sister who worked with SHIELD, and has the perspective that can only come with saving the world countless times. If you honestly think that an "everyman" (or you, or me, or whoever) is anything like that, I'm sorry to inform you that you suffer from grievous delusions of grandeur, and you might need to see a psychologist.

However, I doubt that you do. I think people who continue with this "everyman" bullshit are just those who don't want to see Peter receive any real character growth or achieve any sort of lasting success based on his immense talents, and just use that accursed word as a rallying point which they can use to try and veil their intentions. After all, saying "I want Spider-Man to be an everyman like he has ALWAYS (wink wink) been" sounds much better than saying "I don't want Spider-Man to ever properly grow up". As for why, I can't honestly say. Is it jealousy, to see a character who started off like as an unpopular, impoverished school kid becoming so successful, while many readers (including myself) aren't likely to achieve the same? Is it just a hatred of change and progress, or an overly strong nostalgic effect? Is it just finding things to complain about because the 616 stories must always suck as long as OMD isn't resolved? I have no clue, because I'm not one of you and I can't speak for you. Either way, please cease spreading such obvious misinformation.

Peter Parker has always been able to "be a lot more," but for various reasons he has been held back from doing so or has chosen the more humble path for himself. Primarily, the reasoning for that has been his responsibility to his family and friends, as well as total strangers that he helps. Countless times Peter has chosen to help someone over his own personal needs, and often at his own personal expense. He could have always used his abilities to further his financial situation and prestige, and in fact he did so early on during his short-lived wrestling career. But of course, we know how that ended . . .

Peter HAS always been able to be "a lot more", as you said, but it has never been him holding himself back from doing so. It has always been "fans" or writers who can't fathom what character growth means in the medium of comics. While it is well established that Peter thinks using his superpowers in sports is unfair (which is why I find it amusing that is all you chose to discuss in your post), Peter has achieved enough success in scientific fields (and even photography) to walk into any job he likes. While his responsibility to help people as Spider-Man does mean he would need very flexible hours, there are very few companies who would realistically deny a request like that if they could hire a literal super-genius. Hell, he could walk into Stark Tower or the Baxter Building and get a recommendation from Reed or Tony whenever he likes.

And the most hypocritical part fo this argument, is that you blame Peter's desire to help others for him never achieving personal success, when anyone can see that building technology to solve the world's problems is far more responsible than dressing up in tights every night and hoping you come across some crime to stop. I'd wager he has helped more people through the Uncle Ben Foundation then he ever has stopping street level crime. And that's not even considering the inventions he has built for SHIELD, for medical research, for clean energy, etc. And of course, it's been established that Peter can indeed be successful by day and be Spider-Man by night. It's not a case of choosing only one way to help people. In fact, a more successful Peter means a more efficient and powerful Spider-Man, which, once again, anyone could realize.

Also, Parker Industries really was never Peter's own doing; it was a result of Otto's ego and desires to further himself. Unlike Tony Stark who was born into wealth, "everyman" Peter would never have had the free time to develop a company like PI as he would be too busy with other responsibilities; i.e. different priorities, while Tony Stark is typically unconcerned with maintaining a job, paying rent, bills, going to school, socializing with friends and family (i.e. leading a "normal" life). Good riddance to PI and hopefully a welcome back to a Peter Parker/Spider-Man with more down-to-Earth stories.

Are you kidding me? It's been established that Peter's web fluid (you know, the invention he created in a couple days/hours with no resources but a home chemistry set?) is worth millions, if not billions, according to Stark himself. While Parker Industries itself wasn't initiated by Peter, the fact that he hadn't started up a lab or tech company much earlier in his history is down to nothing but bad writing. If he can invent web fluid at 15, he could have created any number of inventions which he could patent and sell to other companies, if not create his own company, at a daily/weekly rate! If he quit his job, he could realistically have a million-dollar invention by the end of the day (not to mention that, considering he has usually been a free-lance photographer, he wouldn't have needed to actually quit)!

So, once again, I call BS on your post, because I'm sorry to say that's what it is.

[Frontier]

I think you, and everyone else who keeps harping on the word "everyman" really needs to realize that repeating something incessantly doesn't make it true. Whether or not Peter owns a successful company, he is still the dude who hacked Tony Stark with ease, has an IQ higher than anyone who has ever existed in real life, matched intelligence with Reed Richards, married/dated a supermodel/B-List celebrity for a long while, published a successful book, has parents who were super spies and a sister who worked with SHIELD, and has the perspective that can only come with saving the world countless times. If you honestly think that an "everyman" (or you, or me, or whoever) is anything like that, I'm sorry to inform you that you suffer from grievous delusions of grandeur, and you might need to see a psychologist.

I think when you put him under scrutiny he doesn't really fit as an everyman but he's a character who's much more at home with more relatable or down-to-Earth situations then constantly finagling with super-science, new gadgets, or owning his own multi-billion dollar company in my opinion.

The teaching job, the Bugle, and his relationship with MJ have all felt more genuine to me then any of Parker Industries has.

[Gnarlly]

sigh

I think you, and everyone else who keeps harping on the word "everyman" really needs to realize that repeating something incessantly doesn't make it true. Whether or not Peter owns a successful company, he is still the dude who hacked Tony Stark with ease, has an IQ higher than anyone who has ever existed in real life, matched intelligence with Reed Richards, married/dated a supermodel/B-List celebrity for a long while, published a successful book, has parents who were super spies and a sister who worked with SHIELD, and has the perspective that can only come with saving the world countless times. If you honestly think that an "everyman" (or you, or me, or whoever) is anything like that, I'm sorry to inform you that you suffer from grievous delusions of grandeur, and you might need to see a psychologist.

However, I doubt that you do. I think people who continue with this "everyman" bullshit are just those who don't want to see Peter receive any real character growth or achieve any sort of lasting success based on his immense talents, and just use that accursed word as a rallying point which they can use to try and veil their intentions. After all, saying "I want Spider-Man to be an everyman like he has ALWAYS (wink wink) been" sounds much better than saying "I don't want Spider-Man to ever properly grow up". As for why, I can't honestly say. Is it jealousy, to see a character who started off like as an unpopular, impoverished school kid becoming so successful, while many readers (including myself) aren't likely to achieve the same? Is it just a hatred of change and progress, or an overly strong nostalgic effect? Is it just finding things to complain about because the 616 stories must always suck as long as OMD isn't resolved? I have no clue, because I'm not one of you and I can't speak for you. Either way, please cease spreading such obvious misinformation.



Peter HAS always been able to be "a lot more", as you said, but it has never been him holding himself back from doing so. It has always been "fans" or writers who can't fathom what character growth means in the medium of comics. While it is well established that Peter thinks using his superpowers in sports is unfair (which is why I find it amusing that is all you chose to discuss in your post), Peter has achieved enough success in scientific fields (and even photography) to walk into any job he likes. While his responsibility to help people as Spider-Man does mean he would need very flexible hours, there are very few companies who would realistically deny a request like that if they could hire a literal super-genius. Hell, he could walk into Stark Tower or the Baxter Building and get a recommendation from Reed or Tony whenever he likes.

And the most hypocritical part fo this argument, is that you blame Peter's desire to help others for him never achieving personal success, when anyone can see that building technology to solve the world's problems is far more responsible than dressing up in tights every night and hoping you come across some crime to stop. I'd wager he has helped more people through the Uncle Ben Foundation then he ever has stopping street level crime. And that's not even considering the inventions he has built for SHIELD, for medical research, for clean energy, etc. And of course, it's been established that Peter can indeed be successful by day and be Spider-Man by night. It's not a case of choosing only one way to help people. In fact, a more successful Peter means a more efficient and powerful Spider-Man, which, once again, anyone could realize.



Are you kidding me? It's been established that Peter's web fluid (you know, the invention he created in a couple days/hours with no resources but a home chemistry set?) is worth millions, if not billions, according to Stark himself. While Parker Industries itself wasn't initiated by Peter, the fact that he hadn't started up a lab or tech company much earlier in his history is down to nothing but bad writing. If he can invent web fluid at 15, he could have created any number of inventions which he could patent and sell to other companies, if not create his own company, at a daily/weekly rate! If he quit his job, he could realistically have a million-dollar invention by the end of the day (not to mention that, considering he has usually been a free-lance photographer, he wouldn't have needed to actually quit)!

So, once again, I call BS on your post, because I'm sorry to say that's what it is.

And I call shenanigans on yours

:P

[Vaegrin]

He's a low-level superscientist.
He's the unluckiest person who ever lived.
He was a 15 year old kid was briefly a pro-wrestler and who worked for a proper newspaper.
He has never even met a woman who couldn't be a supermodel.
He lives with his 105 year old aunt.
The devil himself took a personal interest in his love life.
His parents were SHIELD agents (I do not know if they still were, but they were at some point in continuity).
He's an orphan with three dead parents.

And that is without going into the whole 'he's a frelling superhero' thing.

What is everyman about this?

Haha, this entire post is pure gold.

[blackspidey2099]

And I call shenanigans on yours

:P

aka. you have no response. I didn't think you would, to be honest, but that's fine. I hope you've at least been able to rethink some of your earlier misguided views, though!