Why are the Fantastic Four called "dated"?

[Doom'nGloom]

I love this point of view. I was in the hospital at 8 years old January of '64, around the Beatles big splash in America. We all were bespelled! I remember someone bringing me a comic to read while there:

A Strange Tales where Johnny was battling the Wizard, with the aid of the undisclosed Invisible Girl!

Bringing the circle back around.

That's cool! I was born in 97 so I was already too late to see both the Beatles and the F4 in their hayday. However my dad is a big fan of the Beatles and every now and then we listen to A Hard Day's Night while singing along.

[Alan2099]

Plotwise, the book tends to favor Reed. Character wise, I've found Johnny and Ben to get more focus. Reed is the scientists who specializes in science and does science things. Ben and Johnny get into relationships, fights, make friends, just generally have better lines.

Sue is also a member of the team. To make up for not having as strong a focus plotwise, or characterwise, she gets to be ridiculously powerful.

[The Overlord]

I agree with that. What I don't agree with is that no matter how interesting the motive is it doesn't justify the hero facing the villain for the billionth time. Doom is my favorite character in all of comics but I'd be lying if I said his characterization in Infamous Iron Man and Marvel 2 in 1 is inferior to his previous characterization. It was something new and fresh and even if he reverted back to his villainous ways I wanted him to stay neutral towards the F4. I facepalmed big time during Slott's run when Doom announced he'd make no moves against the F4 and then the whole wedding fiasco happened and it's back to square one.

Some new villains might be nice, when was the last new villain we saw introduced.

Trapster should either reform or get his butt kicked down to one of the street level heroes. He is not an FF level villain.

With other villains they can still be FF villains but they need some new things do and consistency.

Wizard had a mental breakdown that went nowhere.

A 2007 issue of Ms. Marvel made Puppet Master into a sex trafficker, which just seems ridiculous to me. If another villain like the Controller did it fine, but Puppet Master, no way.

Batman has the best rogues gallery based mostly on personality, a lot DC B-list villains got revamped to be more interesting.

Meanwhile the FF villains besides Doom seem like props not characters, they either do the same old things from the 60s or they have wild out of the blue changes.

[lefthanded]

"Recycling villain" is not a FF problem - every other comic keeps having the superhero face the same villain over and over.

Green Goblin keeps popping up to face off against Spider-man, with the only new "twist" being this time it is a clone, or this time he is on medication, or this time he is using his money, etc. Same thing with Joker and Batman. Ultron keeps coming back to menace the Avengers.

The main problem is that other comics keep stealing FF's popular villains, such that FF comics are no longer the only place to see that story. If Green Goblin kept popping up in Captain America stories, Iron Man stories, Avengers stories, etc, you can bet that readers would care less about the Kindred storyline in Spider-man. The fact that Doom and Galactus face off against other Marvel heroes just as often as they do against FF, makes them feel less like FF villains. In the past years, Doom feels more associated with Iron Man and Galactus with Thor, more with the FF.

Since other Marvel heroes are stealing FF's villains, then what you are left with are the dregs that nobody wants (Mole Man), villains that are so powerful you can only use them every few years (Griever, the Reckoning War villains), or poorly received characters (The Quiet Man).

[4theEarth]

"Recycling villain" is not a FF problem - every other comic keeps having the superhero face the same villain over and over.

Green Goblin keeps popping up to face off against Spider-man, with the only new "twist" being this time it is a clone, or this time he is on medication, or this time he is using his money, etc. Same thing with Joker and Batman. Ultron keeps coming back to menace the Avengers.

The main problem is that other comics keep stealing FF's popular villains, such that FF comics are no longer the only place to see that story. If Green Goblin kept popping up in Captain America stories, Iron Man stories, Avengers stories, etc, you can bet that readers would care less about the Kindred storyline in Spider-man. The fact that Doom and Galactus face off against other Marvel heroes just as often as they do against FF, makes them feel less like FF villains. In the past years, Doom feels more associated with Iron Man and Galactus with Thor, more with the FF.

Since other Marvel heroes are stealing FF's villains, then what you are left with are the dregs that nobody wants (Mole Man), villains that are so powerful you can only use them every few years (Griever, the Reckoning War villains), or poorly received characters (The Quiet Man).

This is why I come to message boards, good insights.

[ARkadelphia]

Fantastic Four = Dated
Beatles = Dated

Hey, I love ‘em both too but I’m an old man. Doesn’t mean that the right writer can’t come along and give them a jolt for a time. I just think that the hurdle is a bit higher to do so than some other Marvel properties.

[Oberon]

I admit to loving some of the battle-side of the FF, but it is hard finding new, credible and interesting threats to the 4.

When I think over the years, the best stories are not fighting villains, evil teams, etc, but some are good, but

the explorative stuff.
But new characters are created for such and then discarded.

In v. 1, # 229 - 230 was the weird story of Ebon and FrostFire who end up transported to the Negative Zone.

Why can't they or similar one-offs reappear?

[4theEarth]

I admit to loving some of the battle-side of the FF, but it is hard finding new, credible and interesting threats to the 4.

When I think over the years, the best stories are not fighting villains, evil teams, etc, but some are good, but

the explorative stuff.
But new characters are created for such and then discarded.

In v. 1, # 229 - 230 was the weird story of Ebon and FrostFire who end up transported to the Negative Zone.

Why can't they or similar one-offs reappear?

The Inhumans could have been cast off just as well but the concept was something that grew the Marvel Universe and that I think is the key to giving the FF a jolt, being the place where the big ideas are born and being there at the start. Jack Kirbys only come along only so often though. Having great art doesn't hurt either

[ETMike1988]

Because they are love eating too much date so they are dated!