Why are the Fantastic Four called "dated"?

[Zodlike]

The ruling class of white people hate white families?

I don't think that's the case.

You're on to something there. What questions you ask are up to you, and will condition the answers.

[Frontier]

The individual characters on their own, in separate books,are just fine.

I think the problem is the character dynamic of these four characters put together.
It just screams sitcom from the sixties and has not aged well. And I don't think this is fixable without making real and permanent changes to this aspect of the property.

I think the FF can be sitcom-ish at times (which the Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes cartoon definitely played up) but I'd say together they're more like a fantastical family drama more then anything else.

[Michael Watkins]

You're on to something there. What questions you ask are up to you, and will condition the answers.

but you don't have the answers or any shot at being part of the ruling class. you see a global agenda in a petty turf war between Marvel and FOX. they aren't trying to make you disregard the white nuclear family. they do support tribalism. because it keeps you from focusing on the real threat.

[Zero Hunter]

The main problem is they have just been poorly handled for a long time, and I am including Hickmans run. Hickman had some good ideas yeah but he also had some garbage ones like how he treated Doom and making Valeria just as much a walkling plot device as Franklin is. They need to get back to the adventures and explores of the MCU and not just the people who keep getting sucked into every new bad situation. Reed has been a mess of a character ever since they drug him into things like the first Civil War and the Iluminati. The old Reed Richards would have never built a secret prison to house anyone who didn't agree with the govt.

They need revamped to where Reed could not solve every problem in the universe in 5 minutes. Where Ben was one of the strongest guys out there instead of a punching bag. Where Johnny is not some immature kid acting like he is still 16 years old. Where Sue is the rock of the family. Where those damned kids are depowered to just being kids again and not walking plot devices. Sure Val should be smart but not super genius smart she is little kid. Franklin needs to lose his god powers once and for all and keep them gone. if you have to give him powers tone them way way way down.

[Darrin Kelley]

Exploration has always been a big thing with the FF. Uncovering new hidden aspects of earth and the rest of the Marvel Universe.

However. The way the Marvel Universe is now? All the frontiers are known and defined. And most writers have stuck to what is known. Rather than taking the risk of creating something new. They have been playing it safe. And it's been that way since the end of the 80's.

[phantom1592]

I think the FF can be sitcom-ish at times (which the Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes cartoon definitely played up) but I'd say together they're more like a fantastical family drama more then anything else.

I found this dvd set quite a while back and have finally sat down to watch it. Honestly, I LOVE this show. They hit on a few things that I would love to see become standard in Fantastic Four series.

1) Reed is NOT infallible. He is constantly taking science to the brink and then the whole team needs to figure out how to solve the problems. The very first thing Reed ever did was build a space shuttle without proper shielding and created the Fantastic Four. The idea that he is absolutely the perfect Scientist that can fix everything with the wave of his 'science'... is pretty boring. He needs to mess up, experiment and resort his data and try again. The fact that he can do anything... except fix Ben... with his super giant brain has always been rough to get around.

2) Being in the Fantastic Four is FUN!!! It's not JUST about keeping the family together, Sue isn't just a hanger-on because shes' the matriarch of the Marvel universe who needs to keep everyone in line... She's there because it's EXCITING. Where else can on any random Tuesday you find yourself going to the microverse or another planet or another dimension!! Get away from the family drama/soap opera stuff, and have awesome adventures in time and space. She may be the most mature person on the team and a grounding force... but she has a wild side too. She's a super-hero after all.

These were things I never got out of modern comics or movies but that cartoon REALLY nailed.

[ed2962]

It's accusation that gets thrown at any character that's been around for a while that's not angsty ( the FF, Superman, Captain America, etc). As soon as the sales slip, the go to excuse is that it's "dated".

[Michael Watkins]

Most black families in America are hardly stable.

they ended T'challa and Ororo's marriage. the sister is a relatively new creation. and T'challa's dad was killed off pretty early in the story. I was under the impression that Black Lightning is a divorcee.

[Graphic Autist]

I have never heard they are dated before now. And if I did, I wouldn't care.

[beetee]

Seriously? We're going with "they're white" as a reason their dated? Yeah that doesn't sound racist at all.

The White Nuclear Family is considered dated and unrepresentative of a more diverse readership. In fact what made the FF interesting was that you would have this whitebread family with weird disassociated powers with a supporting cast of all colors (Wyatt Wingfoot, introducing The Black Panther and Wakanda) colorful villains (Dr. Doom, Galactus) and bizarre races (The Inhumans)

[Kusanagi]

I never thought the FF were dated, I did feel they lost their niche.

Hard to be the explorers, the ones that expand the marvel universe, when everyone else does that too. The Fantastic four's days were numbered the second the Avengers and X-men went to space. They need writers with fresh ideas willing to delve into places and create new ideas for them to explore otherwise the concept is stale.

[pageturner]

Pretty much this. Everything about the FF can also be found elsewhere, but the combination makes the FF a truly wonderful package.

They are basically Challengers of the unknown with powers.

[chief12d]

they ended T'challa and Ororo's marriage. the sister is a relatively new creation. and T'challa's dad was killed off pretty early in the story. I was under the impression that Black Lightning is a divorcee.

You're right on both counts. T'Challa and Black Lightning have both had issues with those closest to them and have unorthodox family structures. However, they are largely stable. T'Challa and his sister were raised to be effective monarchs by their mother despite his father being killed off. Black Lightning may be divorced but raised two heroes who grew up with love and support from their father. I think most would classify them as successful families, unless the poster above you thinks those types of families can't be stable. In comics, like real life, families don't have to be nuclear to raise good children or provide a safe environment.

And as far as outside media goes, neither families are celebrated to the extent of the Incredibles because the general public doesn't even know those two heroes' mythos and/or supporting cast. If the live action depictions of these families are released to acclaim, then people could make the argument they're celebrated, but even then, the FF have gotten chances to showcase their own bonds in outside media. They've simply failed miserably in doing so, hence why they suck commercially and critically.

The failure of the FF to be "celebrated" by the general public, and the potential celebration of black superhero families has little to do with race, and more to do with quality, which the FF have lacked so far. There's no conspiracy at work preventing them from being "celebrated" as a family oriented superhero adventure franchise who just so happens to be white. Just crappy directors and actors with some fans who seem to believe black superhero families are being "celebrated" despite the fact few people know or have yet to experience them in outside media.

[phantom1592]

I never thought the FF were dated, I did feel they lost their niche.

Hard to be the explorers, the ones that expand the marvel universe, when everyone else does that too. The Fantastic four's days were numbered the second the Avengers and X-men went to space. They need writers with fresh ideas willing to delve into places and create new ideas for them to explore otherwise the concept is stale.

I'd Agree with that. Even amongst their own characters. Reed was the smartest one around.... Now they've pushed Tony Stark and Hank Pym and most recently produced a whole slew of 'smartest characters around' types... Ben Grimm used to be the Strong one. The only one who could possibly stop the Hulk on a bad day, but compared to the likes of Sentry or Red Hulk or Red She-hulk or any other Hulks... He's not THAT strong anymore. Johnny was the young fun immature hothead, but now he's kind of stuck in that 'fun uncle' area where there are a TON of younger heroes running around. Sue?? They don't do enough with Sue.

The whole team were built on tropes that just don't apply anymore. Everythign they were known for can be done by characters without 60 years of backstory.

[Graphic Autist]

Reading past posts in this thread before I commented earlier, I find this topic and the comments regarding race hilarious.