Why are the Fantastic Four called "dated"?

[Michael Watkins]

autistic? ....

[Graphic Autist]

autistic? ....

Sure...sounds good.

[Starchild]

Like i said in another thread. The Fantastic Four simply doesn't work. Hulk, Spidey and X-Men came out in the 60s and progressed, churning out good quality stories. FF have not. There's a reason why readers have not connected with them in so long. In my opinion, the only time when the FF were interesting was when they were replaced with Hulk, Spidey, Ghost Rider and Wolverine.

[chamber-music]

I think the FF supporting cast is pretty diverse. Wyatt Wingfoot (Native American), Alicia Masters (blind) and Onome (Wakandan Future Foundation member). Other supporting cast members are fellow superheroes, witches, aliens, mutants, clones, androids, ect.

[Graphic Autist]

Like i said in another thread. The Fantastic Four simply doesn't work. Hulk, Spidey and X-Men came out in the 60s and progressed, churning out good quality stories. FF have not. There's a reason why readers have not connected with them in so long. In my opinion, the only time when the FF were interesting was when they were replaced with Hulk, Spidey, Ghost Rider and Wolverine.

You have no respect for comics history.

[Starchild]

You have no respect for comics history.

I have more respect for comics history than you think. I won't apologize for how i feel. Nor will i backtrack. Point me to a great FF storyline or a iconic one.

[Graphic Autist]

I have more respect for comics history than you think. I won't apologize for how i feel. Nor will i backtrack. Point me to a great FF storyline or a iconic one.

I can't believe someone is saying this...but liked the Ghost Rider/Punisher/Hulk/Spidey glow-in-the-dark, die-cut, foil-embossed crap. I even liked it, but BEST? I need some of THAT.

[Graphic Autist]

You asked for good stories, I'll say issues 232-296.

[JackDaw]

Because outside of Hickman no one does anything interesting with them and they aren't interesting enough as individuals to hold bland stories and attention like interesting characters can.

You do know that the hundred issue original Lee/Kirby run and the long Byrne run regularly feature high up in this sites 100 best ever comics? Hickman didn't write those!

And on top of those celebrated runs I'd argue there are other long runs (like the first Mark Waid run and the Mark Millar run) where the average story quality compared pretty favourably with large majority of mainstream super hero comics.

Who are these unknown "interesting characters" that can hold attention in spite of bland stories and poor writing? I've never come across them!

[Graphic Autist]

You do know that the hundred issue original Lee/Kirby run and the long Byrne run regularly feature high up in this sites 100 best ever comics?!

The John Byrne run on FF is my favorite run on a comic book, ever. Even throwing She-Hulk into the mix worked. Good stuff.

[CaptCleghorn]

The Lee/Kirby, Byrne, and Hickman runs are considered by most to be the top three runs on FF. The real debate is who else comes close. In addition to Waid, Walt Simonson's run (despite the joke Spidey/Hulk/Punisher/Ghost Rider story) gets a lot of credit. Claremont, Ton DeFalco, and Marv Wolfman also have their fans. There's been a lot of good stuff in the past 50+ years.

[Mr MajestiK]

I found this dvd set quite a while back and have finally sat down to watch it. Honestly, I LOVE this show. They hit on a few things that I would love to see become standard in Fantastic Four series.

1) Reed is NOT infallible. He is constantly taking science to the brink and then the whole team needs to figure out how to solve the problems. The very first thing Reed ever did was build a space shuttle without proper shielding and created the Fantastic Four. The idea that he is absolutely the perfect Scientist that can fix everything with the wave of his 'science'... is pretty boring. He needs to mess up, experiment and resort his data and try again. The fact that he can do anything... except fix Ben... with his super giant brain has always been rough to get around.

2) Being in the Fantastic Four is FUN!!! It's not JUST about keeping the family together, Sue isn't just a hanger-on because shes' the matriarch of the Marvel universe who needs to keep everyone in line... She's there because it's EXCITING. Where else can on any random Tuesday you find yourself going to the microverse or another planet or another dimension!! Get away from the family drama/soap opera stuff, and have awesome adventures in time and space. She may be the most mature person on the team and a grounding force... but she has a wild side too. She's a super-hero after all.

These were things I never got out of modern comics or movies but that cartoon REALLY nailed.

I love this post.

[Jokerz79]

I have more respect for comics history than you think. I won't apologize for how i feel. Nor will i backtrack. Point me to a great FF storyline or a iconic one.

Which Decade? Because they've had a great stories pretty much in all since their creation. Recently Secret Wars it's main story was an FF story with Doom and the FF at it's core.

[Jokerz79]

IMO The Fantastic Four aren't dated that's a lame excuse by people who dislike them but don't have an argument why like someone just saying something is dumb or stupid without elaborating when saying they dislike something. The FF are the exact opposite of dated they are timeless in their concept they are at their core a family a big old dysfunctional at times but loving family who goes on crazy adventures their adventures involve Time Travel, Space, Parallel Worlds, and Other Dimensions rather then just family vacations which makes them only more awesome.

[Crimz]

I agree that they aren't dated at all, I've read and heard people say that as the reason why they aren't so popular anymore. I wanted to know why the FF and not the many other heroes made around the same time or prior. You'd never hear anyone say Batman was dated and he was created in the 40s.

But as I said in the OP I do think that there is a problem with Reed being the focus way too often. When was the last time Sue or Ben had character development? Or when has Johnny, that wasn't a variation of him having to grow up? It's not like this team is a big rotating roster and yet most members are neglected. Someone a few pages ago said Hickman's run and Secret Wars was a great ending to Reed's story and I somewhat agree. Secret Wars wasn't a great ending for the FF, it was a great ending for Reed and we need the other three to get much more focus and development.

Another issue is that many have said the FF's role is innovation, exploration and discovering new things. But many writers who come on to the book seem restrained by the great Lee/Kirby run that they don't bring anything new to the franchise. The FF need new things to happen to them, it's a book that has to have new places and concepts as that's what it's all about. No more fighting the Mole Man for the thousandth time.