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  1. #76
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    If only Grant Morrison can write this book. I know he wrote a variation of the FF that wasn't tied to continuity but if he was to get his on the mainstream FF and do what he did with Doom Patrol, JLA and X-Men it would rock!

  2. #77
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    I have more respect for comics history than you think. I won't apologize for how i feel. Nor will i backtrack. Point me to a great FF storyline or a iconic one.
    There've been a lot of those. For one thing, Stan and Jack were in the forefront in getting away from the typical done in one issues that were typical from the 40's, 50's and early 1960s. I think the one arc that I really liked when I first started reading the Fantastic Four was the one where the Frightful Four manage to defeat the Fantastic Four and then leave them powerless after that. In the meantime, Doom realizes that Richards played him big time in a FF annual #2 story where Reed used his encephalogun gizmo to make him believe that he had killed Reed. So just when the FF are powerless, Doom heads for NYC to get his revenge. Throw in a guest shot by Daredevil and you have a classic. So this story played out over quite a few issues for those times Fantastic Four annual #2 and Fantastic Four #38-43 and the Frightful Four return for a rematch against the team, using Ben against them. Very few titles were doing that kind of storytelling. Many like the Galactus trilogy but I like this one a shade better. In fact I find it to be in your iconic category. This was for me the start of Marvel's long uphill march towards supplanting DC's "throne"

    Here's a few more
    There's another arc that was collected in a HC called the Overthrow of Doom which is about a 10 issue arc by Marv Wolfman going from around FF #190-200
    Mark Waid's Unthinkable (not a personal fave of mine however)
    As mentioned earlier Hickman's Secret Wars is an FF- centric story. I'd try out the entire Hickman run but I guess the Council of Reeds was one of my favorites and it leads up to the final confrontation with the Mad Celestials.
    John Byrne's run has some nice individual issues like FF #236 or Doom's solo story in FF#258 where the FF don't even appear. But it as part of an arc in #259-260 that ends with a battle between the Silver Surfer and Galactus

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post

    Another issue is that many have said the FF's role is innovation, exploration and discovering new things. But many writers who come on to the book seem restrained by the great Lee/Kirby run that they don't bring anything new to the franchise. The FF need new things to happen to them, it's a book that has to have new places and concepts as that's what it's all about. No more fighting the Mole Man for the thousandth time.
    That is the biggest problem the FF (and most of the big name characters) have had for the last 20 years. Every new writer wants to come in do their big story with the big villain instead of really doing anything fresh. Every writer wants to do "their" Doom and Galactus story and maybe one of the other big baddies. When you get new writers so often you end up with the same villains over and over which has made the book feel stale at times. Even Hickman was guilty of this and overused Doom and Galactus. They need to just say "Listen, you can do pretty much anything you want with the book you just can't use Doom or Galactus for at least 2 years"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnelg View Post
    They are called dated by people that don't like them and likely never liked them. It's like how people complained about the X-men. More than likely didn't read the title at all.
    I like the FF and always have, but they are dated. They're like comic book version of The Dick Van Dyke Show, an excellent program aesthetically locked in a specific time period, the 60's. My first exposure to them was Byrne's run in the 80's when She-Hulk joined and the concept seemed old fashioned even back then. Subsequent runs I've tried were good but felt the same way. Undeniably retro, but safe and comforting, like good nostalgia is.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I like the FF and always have, but they are dated. They're like comic book version of The Dick Van Dyke Show, an excellent program aesthetically locked in a specific time period, the 60's. My first exposure to them was Byrne's run in the 80's when She-Hulk joined and the concept seemed old fashioned even back then. Subsequent runs I've tried were good but felt the same way. Undeniably retro, but safe and comforting, like good nostalgia is.
    Well, that's simple to fix, turn Johnny black, Thing is now asian and Sue is now a latina.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Well, that's simple to fix, turn Johnny black, Thing is now asian and Sue is now a latina.
    That wouldn't fix anything, it's not their race that's the problem. It's the overall Kirbytech aesthetic, like the way the Fantasticars look futuristic, but seen from 1960's viewpoint, like The Jetsons.

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Male View Post
    If only Grant Morrison can write this book. I know he wrote a variation of the FF that wasn't tied to continuity but if he was to get his on the mainstream FF and do what he did with Doom Patrol, JLA and X-Men it would rock!
    Morrison is too cynical. If anyone would have a problem with a nuclear family, it'd be him. Doom certainly would not be portrayed as noble.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Morrison is too cynical. If anyone would have a problem with a nuclear family, it'd be him. Doom certainly would not be portrayed as noble.
    The FF core are not a nuclear family, and Doom isn't noble.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Morrison is too cynical. If anyone would have a problem with a nuclear family, it'd be him. Doom certainly would not be portrayed as noble.
    Morrison doesn't like the "Doom is a noble man" trope: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/494...tard-who-would

    “Doctor Doom was exactly the sort of bastard who would have armed al-Qaeda with death rays and killer robots if he thought for one second it would piss off the hated Reed Richards and the rest of his mortal enemies in the Fantastic Four"

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Tazpocalapse's Avatar
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    I think they should focus on Ben and Torch making more strides in the family setting introducing some elements of different interactions between the family members and their assorted cast.The idea of different elements of the Marvel U characters could be incorporated well in the FF along with the mythos of very close familiar people exploring the unknown.

    I think the FF could be shown as a group that deals with issues on a small scale such as personal dilemmas ( Luke Cage and his fam stops by to discuss how crazy being superheroes lives that have children can be.) to Trying to talk down Galactus to wanting to mate with the Celestial Madonna (Mantis) and what consequences could happen.

    I know some of my suggestion have already been explored, but i think the FF can be a interesting take on how no matter how powerful superheroes are they are still humans(in some cases) and have a connection to those close to them.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techno_Knight View Post
    Morrison doesn't like the "Doom is a noble man" trope: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/494...tard-who-would

    “Doctor Doom was exactly the sort of bastard who would have armed al-Qaeda with death rays and killer robots if he thought for one second it would piss off the hated Reed Richards and the rest of his mortal enemies in the Fantastic Four"
    My point, exactly.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    The FF core are not a nuclear family.
    I would argue that they operate like one.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    My point, exactly.
    Oh darn, I read that as "Doom would certainly be portrayed as noble", and I missed the "not". My bad.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I would argue that they operate like one.
    That they do.
    Which is part of what makes them so dated.
    They're basically the 50s-60s sitcom caricature of a nuclear family. Real families don't act like that, and likely never did.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    That wouldn't fix anything, it's not their race that's the problem. It's the overall Kirbytech aesthetic, like the way the Fantasticars look futuristic, but seen from 1960's viewpoint, like The Jetsons.
    So turn the Fantastic car into a flying Tumbler, and problem solved.

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