Sexist moments in Marvel Comics

[Drops Of Venus]

This type of thing has been common in fiction written by men. And it has always been a false equivalency. You do not need to "flip the script" to show how sexism is bad by making men the victims. All that does is take attention away from how sexism has affected women both in real life and fiction and basically feeds into the false image of sexism as oppression of men. You only need to look at the time periods in which Thundra and Superia were created in, the age of some of these writers or even the Avengers story involving the Enchantress mentioned in this thread's first page to see what I mean.

I agree that saying men have it just as bad as women when it comes to sexism is a false equivalency, but I don't really agree with the idea that the purpose of those stories was to take something away from women or try to victimize men/villify women. If anything, the fact that some of these stories take place in old times show me that those writers knew exactly what the reality of the male/female representation was, and they reversed the roles as a way to try to make male readers sympathize with the female struggle. Also, the whole Heven thing was created by Aaron and Ewing, and then later fleshed out by Gillen and Marguerite (who's female), so I definitely don't think, at least in this last case, there was any ill intent at all, because this is definitely not the group of people on Marvel I'd call sexist.

I could be completely wrong, of course, but if I interpreted that way, maybe other men did too, and maybe some of them learned something from it. It's pretty much like this short-film that flips the script on homophobia; as a gay men, I don't feel like something was taken from me and my struggle was diminished in any way. On the contrary, I actually have recommended straight people to watch this, and I have seen straight people saying that this was a wake up call for them. So, you know, positive things CAN come from this sort of trope.

[dragonmp93]

This type of thing has been common in fiction written by men. And it has always been a false equivalency. You do not need to "flip the script" to show how sexism is bad by making men the victims. All that does is take attention away from how sexism has affected women both in real life and fiction and basically feeds into the false image of sexism as oppression of men. You only need to look at the time periods in which Thundra and Superia were created in, the age of some of these writers or even the Avengers story involving the Enchantress mentioned in this thread's first page to see what I mean.

Oh yeah, i forgot that men cant suffer from sexism because of the power struggle stuff.

[ed2962]

I'm going to drop one bomb here. One that effected and offended me pretty badly.

The whole Spider-Woman relaunch where Jessica Drew got pregnant. I view that as one of the most sexist things I had seen in comics in a long time.

[rant mode: on.]

Anyone who portrays a woman as baby obsessed and unable to function without one is severely selling women short. Babies are not the end all and be all of a woman's life. A woman is not supposed to be condemned as 'just a baby factory'. It encourages a rather sick stereotype and disrespect for women to portray them that way.

But how was Jessica Drew portrayed in that? Her IQ went to single digits. And her sense of right and wrong, and responsibility went out the window. The writer took an otherwise extremely intelligent, extremely experienced woman. And stripped her of all common sense. Treating her like an absolute ditz when the baby entered the picture.

Yes. I call that sexist.

[rant mode: off]

I disagree slightly. I don't think she was portrayed as a ditz or that her sense of responsibility went out of the window.

[ed2962]

You doubt who would? Marvel? I don't see why not.

Because the then the joke would be about a guy's private parts jiggling and the mainstream doesn't do that particular "sexy" joke as often.

[Matternativ]

I'm going to drop one bomb here. One that effected and offended me pretty badly.

The whole Spider-Woman relaunch where Jessica Drew got pregnant. I view that as one of the most sexist things I had seen in comics in a long time.

[rant mode: on.]

Anyone who portrays a woman as baby obsessed and unable to function without one is severely selling women short. Babies are not the end all and be all of a woman's life. A woman is not supposed to be condemned as 'just a baby factory'. It encourages a rather sick stereotype and disrespect for women to portray them that way.

But how was Jessica Drew portrayed in that? Her IQ went to single digits. And her sense of right and wrong, and responsibility went out the window. The writer took an otherwise extremely intelligent, extremely experienced woman. And stripped her of all common sense. Treating her like an absolute ditz when the baby entered the picture.

Yes. I call that sexist.

[rant mode: off]

I don't agree one bit.
Especially the part were Jess became stupid.
It was a book with a comedic tone. EVERYONE that showed up fell flat on the face at least ones.
The Black Widow was kicked by a baby, Hawkeye could not stop talking about romantic **** when they were all out, Carol was ignored mid speech by a happy couple,. Roger was a loveable idiot throughout the whole damn thing.

And in the end Jess solved all her cases, always got the job done and never outright did stupid stuff.

There are instances were Hopeless has dumbed down a female main character too much. In All New X Men.
And that was less a case of sexism and more a failure on his part to get a grasp on Laura Kinney.

I will admit that Jess, who was known to hate babies, suddenly wanting one was kinda out of nowhere but people change their mind on things and that is true for comic characters too.
And while he could have spend more time explaining why she wanted that you gotta keep in mind that there are only so many pages in a comic book.

I also don't see anything out of the ordinary of a mother (or any kind of parent) being protective of their child. That is just how humans are coded. Compared to normal parents she was a bit irresponsible anyway being out there fighting crime and all.

Another reason how Hopeless run was anything but sexist: She changed her outfit from a skintight suit to something much less (iconic, to be fair, and) "sexy" outfit.

[Rogue Star]

Because the then the joke would be about a guy's private parts jiggling and the mainstream doesn't do that particular "sexy" joke as often.

That's because the "mainstream" comic book audience is heterosexual males, so it's less about sexism and more about not barking up the wrong tree.

But I think if this was a male character it would still work just as well. We have at least one really good example of it being done with a male in movies, so it's definitely not about sexism in my opinion.

I wonder if calling the page with She-Hulk sexist is based on dislike of images meant to be appealing to heterosexual males. Is this sexy page "sexist" because it's done in comics where the audience is primarily male?

[ed2962]

That's because the "mainstream" comic book audience is heterosexual males, so it's less about sexism and more about not barking up the wrong tree.

But I think if this was a male character it would still work just as well. We have at least one really good example of it being done with a male in movies, so it's definitely not about sexism in my opinion.

I wonder if calling the page with She-Hulk sexist is based on dislike of images meant to be appealing to heterosexual males. Is this sexy page "sexist" because it's done in comics where the audience is primarily male?

The Austin Powers thing is a good example of it working, but how often do we see it done? I don't think it the She-Hulk page was sexist per se, but it's just more common to see jokes about breasts than it is about dangling man bits. Heck, you're probably more likely to see a guy get hit the groin than you are to see visual gags about his penis ( outside of actual sexual material).

[Rogue Star]

The Austin Powers thing is a good example of it working, but how often do we see it done? I don't think it the She-Hulk page was sexist per se, but it's just more common to see jokes about breasts than it is about dangling man bits. Heck, you're probably more likely to see a guy get hit the groin than you are to see visual gags about his penis ( outside of actual sexual material).

I don't think the disparity is that significant. But we shouldn't expect to see such things aimed at male-hetero majority. It just wouldn't make sense.

[Seren]

I'm going to drop one bomb here. One that effected and offended me pretty badly.

The whole Spider-Woman relaunch where Jessica Drew got pregnant. I view that as one of the most sexist things I had seen in comics in a long time.

[rant mode: on.]

Anyone who portrays a woman as baby obsessed and unable to function without one is severely selling women short. Babies are not the end all and be all of a woman's life. A woman is not supposed to be condemned as 'just a baby factory'. It encourages a rather sick stereotype and disrespect for women to portray them that way.

But how was Jessica Drew portrayed in that? Her IQ went to single digits. And her sense of right and wrong, and responsibility went out the window. The writer took an otherwise extremely intelligent, extremely experienced woman. And stripped her of all common sense. Treating her like an absolute ditz when the baby entered the picture.

Yes. I call that sexist.

[rant mode: off]

I will have to disagree with you on this. While I was initially skeptical about the whole story line when it was announced, I feel as though Dennis Hopeless handled the whole arc extremely well and that the whole creative team was hell bent on getting this story RIGHT. I never felt once that Jessica was baby obsessed nore unable to function with out one. Nore that she was portrayed as a ditz. What I saw was a woman who made a choice about her life and stuck with that decision. A woman who was balancing being a mom and being true to herself. And throughout the entire run, she does just that - There are great heartwarming moments were Jess is a mom first and then you have awesome scenes were she kicks all sorts of ass. She clearly is still the Jessica Drew we all know and love (at least to me).

If you really want to get into a sexist portrayal of Super Hero motherhood then I will point you in the direction of Jessica Jones.

[ed2962]

I don't think the disparity is that significant. But we shouldn't expect to see such things aimed at male-hetero majority. It just wouldn't make sense.

I think it wouldn't make sense perhaps if it were prurient material aimed at hetro-men ( although I think someone could make an argument that that could make sense depending), but we're talking about superheroes by the Big 2. And it's not like beefcake is totally absent from cape comics.

[Marvel Forever]

There were so many sexist remarks made against Susan Storm back when she was the Invisible Girl, I would not know where to begin....

[Agent Z]

I will have to disagree with you on this. While I was initially skeptical about the whole story line when it was announced, I feel as though Dennis Hopeless handled the whole arc extremely well and that the whole creative team was hell bent on getting this story RIGHT. I never felt once that Jessica was baby obsessed nore unable to function with out one. Nore that she was portrayed as a ditz. What I saw was a woman who made a choice about her life and stuck with that decision. A woman who was balancing being a mom and being true to herself. And throughout the entire run, she does just that - There are great heartwarming moments were Jess is a mom first and then you have awesome scenes were she kicks all sorts of ass. She clearly is still the Jessica Drew we all know and love (at least to me).

If you really want to get into a sexist portrayal of Super Hero motherhood then I will point you in the direction of Jessica Jones.

What's sexist about Jessica Jones as a mother?

[Rogue Star]

Never mind.

[Carabas]

What's sexist about Jessica Jones as a mother?

Seconded...

[Michael Watkins]