Who's Due for Face-Heel Turn?

[JasonEsta]

No Gambit wasn't the villain, he was the naïve kid that believed a lie and then nearly got himself killed when he figured it all out and tried to make up for his mistake, later on of course he'd lied to everyone about what he did given that he felt guilty and embarrassed about it, and it's not like Magneto is unfamiliar to telling a lie or two...or a thousand...even to his own kids before he stabs them in the back...

Naïve? He knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted what Sinister had and sold out to get it...didn't know it was gonna be that bad but more importantly than anything...he kept lying about it. He was ASKED OUTRIGHT in X-Men #45 by the Rogue character and what did we get? Angst. Soap Opera drama. Goofiness. This guy just couldn't say what he wanted str8 up..to hell with Storm..to hell with Wolverine..and even Rogue. LOL. It was hilarious. Sabretooth was more truthful in Uncanny #328 than Gambit was his whole damn run. That's absurd and shows how shallow and shaky the Gambit character was.

[JasonEsta]

Gambit was hardly a villian. None of that makes him a villian. He was an anti-hero at best



Gambit was not a kid. Lets not downplay what he did. He was an adult and fully responsible for his actions. Owning said act makes him a stronger character than excusing it

Deceiving Rogue, Betsy, Angel, Beast, and Xavier wasn't an anti-hero gimmick. He was lying outright...no one had a gun to his head..he wasn't being blackmailed. He chose to act like that. It was pure comedy....he had no courage and no stones. Simple as that. That's the way it was and that's HOW it went down. Joseph thought he was a Magneto with no memory and tries to take on Onslaught by himself the year before In a useless gesture that could get him killed yet Gambit can't even say "Hey..I worked for Sinister. You don't like it? Tough ****". It was HILARIOUS to see him get exposed like that..especially after they had him and Rogue be intimate suddenly. A true sneak. A fiend.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Takeaways from this thread = people are mainly focusing on Gambit's ethical affiliation.

Some people saying Beast is already heading that path (O5 Beast certainly seems to be)

A lot of people saying Fantomex but of course that already happened in Spurrier's X-Force (which was not widely read I guess)

Someone said Rogue but that makes no sense, she was introduced that way to begin with and already did a lot of cool villain action including easily defeating all of the Avengers combined (would love to see that in a movie LOL)

Few people said Jeen but aside from a few issues under Bendis no real evidence pointing to that

I kind of agree with the guy who said we don't necessarily need any more Heel Turns of this nature, we need to get our main characters "back" who were killed for no real purpose.

My two cents = Storm. BloodStorm in Mutant X was cool.

[donpricetag]

Naïve? He knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted what Sinister had and sold out to get it...didn't know it was gonna be that bad but more importantly than anything...he kept lying about it. He was ASKED OUTRIGHT in X-Men #45 by the Rogue character and what did we get? Angst. Soap Opera drama. Goofiness. This guy just couldn't say what he wanted str8 up..to hell with Storm..to hell with Wolverine..and even Rogue. LOL. It was hilarious. Sabretooth was more truthful in Uncanny #328 than Gambit was his whole damn run. That's absurd and shows how shallow and shaky the Gambit character was.

You have a serious issue with seperating your opinion and assumption from fact. If it's printed on the paper, its fact, cannon. It was printed that he didn't know what was about to happen. You can't say otherwise based on your opinion because you'd be questioning a story that was written almost 20 years ago, ie making you a nutcase. You can't question the motives of a fictional character after the fact for the pure basis that GAMBIT (the fictional character) did not say that, the WRITER, wrote that. Questioning that would put the entire book or run (hell, the series!) into dispute; "he said that... but did he really mean it?" The story was told. Dialog and lines are no different than writing a long form essay, accept you give the different parts life instead of describing them to the audience. That's really illogical and completely unreasonable to think otherwise. Not to mention, I'm sure you know what it's like to admit your were an unwitting accessory to mass-murder to a bunch of hero-types, most of whom were present to said event. And then you play as if it ended there, like he didnt in the same motion attempt to stop it, thus proving he didnt know what they were going to do. You're constant banging of this drum is tiresome and annoying. Everytime you try to make a case, you bring this us up while not accepting the faults of the character that put the whole story into play for pure motive of deception and some could argue cowardice. The same faults you're putting on Gambit. Gambit as a kid got played by one of the most prevelant Marvel villains to date, Mr.-#@$@%$%@-Sinister. I think he gets a pass. It all boils down to you having this weird infactuation with needing to make Gambit less of a character, I assume because you can't just let go of this unspoken rivalry between him and Magneto, mostly rooted in Rogue. Let it go, bro. Let it go.

Most of us are talking heel turn based on his already dubious connections to the underworld. You're talking heel turn based on something thats been fortified in your own Magneto-obsessed head. The turn your talking about is all but impossible for this version of Gambit. If you want to talk about another, possible from some other alternate Earth that had some sort of bloody, murderous background, then go for it, but what you're claiming would be "fitting" is ridiculously out of character. Even in his Ragin Cajun days (where he actually stole less and did more superheroing), that wasn't in his character. Doublecross the X-Men and start down a bloody path purely for the sake of money or advancement? If that's what teh Guild was into, it'd be what he'd steer them away from.

[Havok83]

Deceiving Rogue, Betsy, Angel, Beast, and Xavier wasn't an anti-hero gimmick. He was lying outright...no one had a gun to his head..he wasn't being blackmailed. He chose to act like that. It was pure comedy....he had no courage and no stones. Simple as that. That's the way it was and that's HOW it went down. Joseph thought he was a Magneto with no memory and tries to take on Onslaught by himself the year before In a useless gesture that could get him killed yet Gambit can't even say "Hey..I worked for Sinister. You don't like it? Tough ****". It was HILARIOUS to see him get exposed like that..especially after they had him and Rogue be intimate suddenly. A true sneak. A fiend.

Lying doesnt make someone a villain. He did nothing of villainy to the X-men during that stint. By your logic, Psylocke was a villian when she joined the X-men bc she decieved the X-men about her eyes coming from Mojo. Or Rachel decieving everyone about being a Hound. Yeah Gambit was ashamed about something from his past which he did not want to reveal, but that did not make him a villian while he was an X-man. Its not like he had malice intent like Mystique whom joined for the intended purpose of betraying them

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Deceiving Rogue, Betsy, Angel, Beast, and Xavier wasn't an anti-hero gimmick. He was lying outright...no one had a gun to his head..he wasn't being blackmailed. He chose to act like that. It was pure comedy....he had no courage and no stones. Simple as that. That's the way it was and that's HOW it went down. Joseph thought he was a Magneto with no memory and tries to take on Onslaught by himself the year before In a useless gesture that could get him killed yet Gambit can't even say "Hey..I worked for Sinister. You don't like it? Tough ****". It was HILARIOUS to see him get exposed like that..especially after they had him and Rogue be intimate suddenly. A true sneak. A fiend.

You mean like it was hilarious to watch the great Magneto spend those years in a diaper and needing to be fed like a little baby back after Xavier wiped his mind...and who hasn't Magneto lied to repeatedly...