July Marvel Sales

[Drops Of Venus]

And it had decent sales back then

Well, it depends on what you consider decent. I don't know about other markets, but in the direct, monthly market, sales showed that even back on KSD's run Carol's book would approach the cancellation zone very early on. The difference is that the drops between issues were a lot smaller, making the sales a lot steadier... it would even get a sales bump every now and then, showing that the audience, albeit small, was loyal. So yeah, KSD was very good at keeping Carol's audience together... something that has been happening less and less, specially after the sales slump, which haven't done Carol any favors.

And while I'm the first one to point out how DM sales are not the full picture, I can't help but feel that the constant relaunches are evidence that Carol is not in a Squirrel Girl/Ms. Marvel kind of situation.

Those kinds of status quos are nearly impossible to keep going. Because Thor Odinson is, and always will be, the character identified as Thor. You can put Dick Grayson inside the cowl, but people just think of Bruce Wayne when Batman is mentioned. Jason Aaron can make Jane Foster work, but what about the next writer? They may not want to use use Jane or expand on that story. It's like when Dr. Strange stopped being the Sorcerer Supreme -- nearly every other book involving magic still used Dr. Strange over Doctor Voodoo, despite the latter being the person they should have went to.

We all knew from day one, that Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner, and Thor was going to come back. These were never meant to be permanent changes. If they want to make Jane Foster follow the likes of Thunderstrike or Beta Ray Bill, then ok. It's happened before.

I don't think anyone expects Thor Odinson to be forgotten. That's definitely not happening. Which doesn't mean Jane will get the Thunderstrike/BRB treatment, because those are not the same situations at all. Those characters never got the kind of push or the kind of sucess Jane got. I'd say Jane was a breakout legacy star just as much as Kamala Khan. It's the kind of success that rarely ever happens with a new character (or in this case, an old character taking on a new role), so why shouldn't they milk that? People sharing mantles has become a thing at Marvel, so there IS precedent for Jane to still be Thor even after Odinson returns to the title. Also, your Strange/Voodoo comparison doesn't really work in this case, because Jane was definitely not shunned like Voodoo was. There are tons of writers and books outside of Aaron's work that specifically wanted to use HER as their Thor figure, even though Odinson WAS still around and COULD still be the Thor reference. People LOVE Jane. She outsold her predecessor AND is still smashing on sales, her book is critically acclaimed, she has a solid fanbase, she guest starred on multiple books, she became an Avenger (on the main title, nonetheless), she's been adapted to video games and is about to be adapted on an animated show as well. All of this in just 3 years of existence. Can we say that about Thunderstrike/BRB/Voodoo? Let's be real here. I'm not even saying I'm against Jane getting a new name/weapon and things going back to same old same, BUT there ARE perfectly logical reasons as to why this particular change might stick more than others.

[Frontier]

There are tons of writers and books outside of Aaron's work that specifically wanted to use HER as their Thor figure, even though Odinson WAS still around and COULD still be the Thor reference.

Well, when they've taken away his name and his hammer and have downplayed his status and character as Thor I don't think it's any surprise that Jane (the only actual Thor around who Marvel wants to promote a Thor) gets used more.

[Drops Of Venus]

Well, when they've taken away his name and his hammer and have downplayed his status and character as Thor I don't think it's any surprise that Jane (the only actual Thor around who Marvel wants to promote a Thor) gets used more.

Honestly, it does surprise me a little. I mean, even when Steve Rogers lost the SS serum and gave up the shield, it felt like he was still popping up everywhere because he was just too iconic to stay away. After the whole HYDRA stuff? He was basically at the center of the MU and everyone wanted to get a piece of him because there was a lot of storyline potential in that. Just like there IS a lot of potential in the whole Unworthy storyline, and like whiterabbit said, Odinson IS the most recognizable Thor out there, even if he's not holding the hammer or the name. I mean, heck, now that MOVIE Thor has lost his hammer and changed his look, current Odinson might even be more recognizable by the big audiences, and I'm going to be really surprised if the comics don't try to capitalize on that too. Anyway, I guess Marvel Legacy will show us what the future holds for the Thor franchise...

[JKtheMac]

The cancer thing will be resolved soon. Jane's next (Legacy) arc is called The Death of the Mighty Thor, and the solicit says her cancer has gotten worse and it might be her last adventure. When she dies, she'd probably end up in Valhalla, the Norse heaven. Perhaps there she could obtain a duplicate Mjolnir (maybe it just appears with her when she arrives in Valhalla, while also lying on the ground next to her dead body in Asgard or Earth, for Odinson to reclaim) and return to the mortal plane - but at a cost. Her mortal form would still be dead, so she wouldn't be able to resume her old civilian life. However, that would remove the one minute limit for being away from the hammer, and she would be able to transform into civilian clothing. Thus both Thors would co-exist.

Well we have recent precedence that both could exist in the same body.

I wonder if JA has been reading Fearless Defenders?

[whiterabbit]

Well, it depends on what you consider decent. I don't know about other markets, but in the direct, monthly market, sales showed that even back on KSD's run Carol's book would approach the cancellation zone very early on. The difference is that the drops between issues were a lot smaller, making the sales a lot steadier... it would even get a sales bump every now and then, showing that the audience, albeit small, was loyal. So yeah, KSD was very good at keeping Carol's audience together... something that has been happening less and less, specially after the sales slump, which haven't done Carol any favors.

And while I'm the first one to point out how DM sales are not the full picture, I can't help but feel that the constant relaunches are evidence that Carol is not in a Squirrel Girl/Ms. Marvel kind of situation.



I don't think anyone expects Thor Odinson to be forgotten. That's definitely not happening. Which doesn't mean Jane will get the Thunderstrike/BRB treatment, because those are not the same situations at all. Those characters never got the kind of push or the kind of sucess Jane got. I'd say Jane was a breakout legacy star just as much as Kamala Khan. It's the kind of success that rarely ever happens with a new character (or in this case, an old character taking on a new role), so why shouldn't they milk that? People sharing mantles has become a thing at Marvel, so there IS precedent for Jane to still be Thor even after Odinson returns to the title. Also, your Strange/Voodoo comparison doesn't really work in this case, because Jane was definitely not shunned like Voodoo was. There are tons of writers and books outside of Aaron's work that specifically wanted to use HER as their Thor figure, even though Odinson WAS still around and COULD still be the Thor reference. People LOVE Jane. She outsold her predecessor AND is still smashing on sales, her book is critically acclaimed, she has a solid fanbase, she guest starred on multiple books, she became an Avenger (on the main title, nonetheless), she's been adapted to video games and is about to be adapted on an animated show as well. All of this in just 3 years of existence. Can we say that about Thunderstrike/BRB/Voodoo? Let's be real here. I'm not even saying I'm against Jane getting a new name/weapon and things going back to same old same, BUT there ARE perfectly logical reasons as to why this particular change might stick more than others.

Eric Masterson was Thor from 1991 to 1993 when Odinson retired. He actually first merged with Thor in 1989 if you want to get technical. We've done this before. All the stuff you mentioned, Eric did it, too. Even video games. He's even the Thor we read during Operation Galactic Storm and the Infinity Gauntlet. If they want to give Jane a hammer and send her off, then alright. But Marvel would be stupid not to push Thor Odinson with his movie coming out in three months.

[Digifiend]

Of note though - we've seen Mjolnir get destroyed in a trailer - Thor won't have his hammer for the bulk of the movie. He also cuts off his long hair. Unworthy Thor would actually still be synergised to the movie.

[whiterabbit]

Of note though - we've seen Mjolnir get destroyed in a trailer - Thor won't have his hammer for the bulk of the movie. He also cuts off his long hair. Unworthy Thor would actually still be synergised to the movie.

Do you really believe Thor is not going to have his hammer back when Infinity War launches in nine months? If not then, then it will be the sequel. You don't do a decade of movies and not have a scene of Thor hitting Thanos with his hammer. We as well not have any scenes or Captain America using his shield against Thanos.

[stillanerd]

Regardless of where these comics are ranked, or whether Secret Empire is still in the Top 10, I'd say these are quite dire times for the Direct Market in general on the basis of the current figures. I also agree that Marvel really dropped the ball when it comes to promoting characters like Guardians of the Galaxy, since everybody knew they had a new movie coming out this year.

Number Crunching: The top 20 comics sales estimates for July 2017

[WebLurker]

Regardless of where these comics are ranked, or whether Secret Empire is still in the Top 10, I'd say these are quite dire times for the Direct Market in general on the basis of the current figures. I also agree that Marvel really dropped the ball when it comes to promoting characters like Guardians of the Galaxy, since everybody knew they had a new movie coming out this year.

Do movies really generate comic book sales, though? Speaking personally, I've found that, excusing Spider-Man (who always was my favorite superhero, most of the superhero comics I buy are stuff that sounded interesting in and of itself. I love superhero movies, but the only thing they sell me on is more movies. Case in point, I like the Guardians of the Galaxy and I don't give two hoots about the Guardians comics.

[Frontier]

Do movies really generate comic book sales, though? Speaking personally, I've found that, excusing Spider-Man (who always was my favorite superhero, most of the superhero comics I buy are stuff that sounded interesting in and of itself. I love superhero movies, but the only thing they sell me on is more movies. Case in point, I like the Guardians of the Galaxy and I don't give two hoots about the Guardians comics.

Movies or presence on TV shows has very rarely impacted comic sales.

At this point they seem to be just indicators for who Marvel is going to promote or give books to at this point, and even that's sketchy sometimes.

[rui no onna]

Do movies really generate comic book sales, though? Speaking personally, I've found that, excusing Spider-Man (who always was my favorite superhero, most of the superhero comics I buy are stuff that sounded interesting in and of itself. I love superhero movies, but the only thing they sell me on is more movies. Case in point, I like the Guardians of the Galaxy and I don't give two hoots about the Guardians comics.

Before the TV show, Walking Dead used to sell around 20,000 copies (which is pretty darned good for creator-owned). Now, if not for constant renumberings and events, it would be a mainstay in Diamond's Top 10. If you include people reading via trades, I reckon Walking Dead has at least hundreds of thousands of readers and it's gaining more every year. Few transition into floppies but the ones that do probably help keep sales levels stable despite attrition.

Anime, etc, help with manga sales.

I think superhero movies and TV shows do help bring awareness to superhero comics. You won't get majority of movie goers to buy comics but even a fraction of a percent of that is still significant. There's bound to be some who are predisposed to reading. That said, the primary format consumed by the new audience is likely TPBs and digital rather than $4+ 20-page floppies that can only be purchased via specialty stores.