Zatanna 'The Mistress of Magic' Appreciation Thread

[John Venus]

I recently finished reading Zatanna/Black Canary: Bloodspell.

Overall, it was a good read with solid art. It was a nice escape from the gloomy darkness that usually encapsulates the DCU. Furthermore, Zatanna returns in her full glory and is treated with full respect unlike the sexist treatment she got in JLD.

Dini does a good job on developing a history between Zatanna and Black Canary. It was nice to see Zatanna's mother make a cameo considering how rarely stories use her as well as the Hidden Ones being used in the story. Plus the art makes full use of Zatanna's history like how in her first trip to the Watchtower, her look was clearly based on her look in her first appearance and even the snake head costume makes an appearance.

Though I was a little surprised that Dini didn't make use of the fact that Black Canary was also a legacy superhero: the Dinah Laurel version anyway or maybe this version is Dinah Drake? I don't know really know. Still, the interactions between these characters were very well done. I especially love the scenes in the mall.

The battle between the Zatanna and Black Canary was pretty well choreographed with each of them getting possessed by the ghost was really well done.

The art by Joe Quinnos was lovely though the mouths looked weird in some places especially noticeable in the panel where Zee chokes on her food.

[Enigmatic Undead]

[quinnzel]

Oh, how I wish Zatanna could get her own solo series again... I haven't been able to get my hands on any of her solo stuff thus far, except for a couple of old back issues from this series. I know she's in Justice League Dark but I wish they'd just give her her own solo series again like the Paul Dini run, which is the one I've been looking for. sesruc!

[John Venus]

Oh, how I wish Zatanna could get her own solo series again... I haven't been able to get my hands on any of her solo stuff thus far, except for a couple of old back issues from this series. I know she's in Justice League Dark but I wish they'd just give her her own solo series again like the Paul Dini run, which is the one I've been looking for. sesruc!

JLD is not a good place for great Zatanna stories anyway. I read the first 18 issues before dropping it and she is portrayed as weak, incompetent and a damsel in distress for most of the series. I would love for her to get her own solo series so long as she gets a writer who treats her with respect like Dini and Morrison does.

Finding solo Zatanna stories will be tough since there aren't many of them and the vast bulk of her appearances are in the JLA. The quality of her solo stories tend vary from great to okay and whilst the story telling style of the 60's and 70's don't bother me much, it may prove to be an issue for other readers especially since those stories haven't been modernized due to her lack of an ongoing. Are you okay with that era's storytelling style?

Anyway, scroll down to the first page of this very thread and you will find a Reading List that may help you track down good Zee stories.

[Mark]

I think she's done better in JLD in the last few issues, if she could just rid herself of Constantine and find someone else I'd be happier, but she's taken charge of that team and started to come into her own.

[Vanguard-01]

I think the JLD is fine for Zee.

I just wish she'd finally kick Constantine out of the House once and for all. This is her team now, and as long as he's there, he's going to keep trying to undermine her. I hate her relationship with Constantine, and I don't want her "attraction" to him to be hovering over her head like the Sword of Damocles every single issue.

Let Zee stand on her own. Let her make the JLD her team. Let her really shine as a hero and a leader. Constantine is not necessary to any of that.

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

JLD is not a good place for great Zatanna stories anyway. I read the first 18 issues before dropping it and she is portrayed as weak, incompetent and a damsel in distress for most of the series. I would love for her to get her own solo series so long as she gets a writer who treats her with respect like Dini and Morrison does.

Its funny when you think about it. No one seems to like or give a crap about Constantine. Everyone hate him on the JLD team. Even his long time fans hate that version of Constantine. His solo title is way below the cancellation point. He is going to have his own TV show but as far as I am concerned his show could get cancelled after one season (people over at NBC have an habit of cancelling shows pretty fast for the past few years even the ones with decent ratings). So I am going to ask this question : Whats so special about Constantine or at least that Constantine ? Why he is allowed to take a huge dumb on a character (Zatanna) that precede him for over two decades.

The whole reason why I'm reading JLD is to see an happy Zee who's in total control of her powers and her team. But right now we cannot see that. Wake up DC. Its so obvious people want to see that but you prefer to make a mockery out of Zatanna over some random dude that cannot even support his own solo title. Its no wonder to me why Justice League Dark is close to the cancellation point. But then again DC you made a mockery out of Black Canary over some random husband (DC seems to love random guys for some reasons) so whats happening with Zatanna should not come as a surprise. Kicking Constantine out of the team for good and giving a solo tittle to Zatanna are the obvious decisions to make but no DC you prefer to shove Constantine in our faces at the expense of not only Zatanna but also her teammates. Guess what DC ? Comic book readers in general are not interested in reading "Constantine and his punching bags" because this is what JLD is all about now. Why can't you understand that DC ? And Vanguard-01 is right : Constantine is not needed. He can go back to his solo title that a few people care about. Sorry but I needed to vent some frustration.

[liwanag]

[quinnzel]

JLD is not a good place for great Zatanna stories anyway. I read the first 18 issues before dropping it and she is portrayed as weak, incompetent and a damsel in distress for most of the series. I would love for her to get her own solo series so long as she gets a writer who treats her with respect like Dini and Morrison does.

Finding solo Zatanna stories will be tough since there aren't many of them and the vast bulk of her appearances are in the JLA. The quality of her solo stories tend vary from great to okay and whilst the story telling style of the 60's and 70's don't bother me much, it may prove to be an issue for other readers especially since those stories haven't been modernized due to her lack of an ongoing. Are you okay with that era's storytelling style?

Anyway, scroll down to the first page of this very thread and you will find a Reading List that may help you track down good Zee stories.

I personally haven't read JLD yet but my brother bought the first trade and he told me it's really not anything very special. Of course he and I have different tastes so I'll have to read it and decide for myself, but he said Zatanna really doesn't do a lot and is just kind of there. Like you mentioned, he was complaining about how she's portrayed as weak and is just kind of there to get into trouble. So really, from all of that, it sounds like something I could pass on.

Thanks for the heads-up about the reading list! I'll definitely check it out

[The_Greatest_Username]

I love Peter Milligan (he's one of my favorite writers), but the early issues of JLD were absolutely horrible for Zatanna. Her spells never worked and her dialogue was largely irrelevant to the story. She felt like a filler character at best.

I think DeMatteis has done fine with the character so far. I'm hoping he'll stay on this title a little while longer and develop Zee into a stronger leader.

[Punisher007]

I still don't get why she left the main JL team? They hyped up her appearance there, and even designed a new costume for her, but she didn't end up really doing anything of importance. It's the same with Element Woman for that matter. The New 52 JL has been extremely male-centric from the beginning, and they just dump their two new female members. It's just WW now, which is disappointing.

[WonderNight]

Its funny when you think about it. No one seems to like or give a crap about Constantine. Everyone hate him on the JLD team. Even his long time fans hate that version of Constantine. His solo title is way below the cancellation point. He is going to have his own TV show but as far as I am concerned his show could get cancelled after one season (people over at NBC have an habit of cancelling shows pretty fast for the past few years even the ones with decent ratings). So I am going to ask this question : Whats so special about Constantine or at least that Constantine ? Why he is allowed to take a huge dumb on a character (Zatanna) that precede him for over two decades.

The whole reason why I'm reading JLD is to see an happy Zee who's in total control of her powers and her team. But right now we cannot see that. Wake up DC. Its so obvious people want to see that but you prefer to make a mockery out of Zatanna over some random dude that cannot even support his own solo title. Its no wonder to me why Justice League Dark is close to the cancellation point. But then again DC you made a mockery out of Black Canary over some random husband (DC seems to love random guys for some reasons) so whats happening with Zatanna should not come as a surprise. Kicking Constantine out of the team for good and giving a solo tittle to Zatanna are the obvious decisions to make but no DC you prefer to shove Constantine in our faces at the expense of not only Zatanna but also her teammates. Guess what DC ? Comic book readers in general are not interested in reading "Constantine and his punching bags" because this is what JLD is all about now. Why can't you understand that DC ? And Vanguard-01 is right : Constantine is not needed. He can go back to his solo title that a few people care about. Sorry but I needed to vent some frustration.

Sad. Zatanna 1 of my 3 favorite characters along with grayson and power girl, im so dang on sick of the way my 3 favorite characters have threated since the new 52! At this point i just want zatanna,nightwing and power girl in there own book together as there own trinity being happy, fun,friends,powerful and awesome. Without playing second to anyone, a guy can dream can't he?

[John Venus]

Its funny when you think about it. No one seems to like or give a crap about Constantine. Everyone hate him on the JLD team. Even his long time fans hate that version of Constantine. His solo title is way below the cancellation point. He is going to have his own TV show but as far as I am concerned his show could get cancelled after one season (people over at NBC have an habit of cancelling shows pretty fast for the past few years even the ones with decent ratings). So I am going to ask this question : Whats so special about Constantine or at least that Constantine ? Why he is allowed to take a huge dumb on a character (Zatanna) that precede him for over two decades.

The whole reason why I'm reading JLD is to see an happy Zee who's in total control of her powers and her team. But right now we cannot see that. Wake up DC. Its so obvious people want to see that but you prefer to make a mockery out of Zatanna over some random dude that cannot even support his own solo title. Its no wonder to me why Justice League Dark is close to the cancellation point. But then again DC you made a mockery out of Black Canary over some random husband (DC seems to love random guys for some reasons) so whats happening with Zatanna should not come as a surprise. Kicking Constantine out of the team for good and giving a solo tittle to Zatanna are the obvious decisions to make but no DC you prefer to shove Constantine in our faces at the expense of not only Zatanna but also her teammates. Guess what DC ? Comic book readers in general are not interested in reading "Constantine and his punching bags" because this is what JLD is all about now. Why can't you understand that DC ? And Vanguard-01 is right : Constantine is not needed. He can go back to his solo title that a few people care about. Sorry but I needed to vent some frustration.

Vent away! That's part of what this thread is about.

I am glad I am not the only one who feels that way about how Zatanna is treated. I mean, I understand that Hellblazer was this huge critically acclaimed Vertigo book but that's no excuse to take a dump on one of DC's best magical heroines or hell most of their best magic characters.

It goes all the way back to the otherwise excellent works like Books of Magic and Zatanna: Come Together mini series. There was this outright assumption that Zee was weaker than Constantine and needed to be saved by him. There was that 'Oh no! I am not as good as Constantine or my father! I need to be saved by Constantine!' thing that pissed me off in those works. It's a load of bollocks, I have read some of the Zatanna comics between her first appearance in the 60's to the 80's. Yes, in the early days, she sometimes needed saving and advice from the older heroes and that was understandable but she was also powerful, creative and can handle herself in situations. She's gotten thrown into alternate dimensions, eaten by a giant space snake and almost got turned to stone. She got more experienced as time time went on. Then suddenly, >poof< she is a female character so she must be the weaker half assumption kicks in.

We joke about Dini's obsession with Zatanna but really, if you look back, he is the only creator with a story to tell about her. He cleaned up the mess that Identity Crisis made, fleshed out her character and her relationships, developed a history between her and Batman and later between her and Black Canary and he struck the right balance between showing her as powerful and capable but still vulnerable and deftly worked in ways to give characters like Batman something to do. The only other writer who had stories to tell with Zatanna was Grant Morrison. He did well though unlike Dini, he doesn't seem to have any more stories to tell.

I've always felt that Zatanna could be DC's answer to Marvel's She Hulk; powerful, independent, sexy woman in charge of her sexuality who is in a profession that causes her work and her life as a superhero to cross over.

I love Peter Milligan (he's one of my favorite writers), but the early issues of JLD were absolutely horrible for Zatanna. Her spells never worked and her dialogue was largely irrelevant to the story. She felt like a filler character at best.

I think DeMatteis has done fine with the character so far. I'm hoping he'll stay on this title a little while longer and develop Zee into a stronger leader.

I like Milligan too due to his work on X-Men: Legacy so the quality of the early JLD book was especially disappointing.

What was especially annoying was how her spells never work and she was always saying the same thing backwards. The creativity and power that I associate with the character was never there.

Lemire had more variety of spells but he was just as bad as Miligan since Zee was still largely ineffective and reduced to a damsel in distress that needed rescuing.

Thanks for the heads-up about the reading list! I'll definitely check it out

You are welcome! Enjoy!

I still don't get why she left the main JL team? They hyped up her appearance there, and even designed a new costume for her, but she didn't end up really doing anything of importance. It's the same with Element Woman for that matter. The New 52 JL has been extremely male-centric from the beginning, and they just dump their two new female members. It's just WW now, which is disappointing.

She was always intended to be on the JLD team since the start of the Nu 52.

Sad. Zatanna 1 of my 3 favorite characters along with grayson and power girl, im so dang on sick of the way my 3 favorite characters have threated since the new 52! At this point i just want zatanna,nightwing and power girl in there own book together as there own trinity being happy, fun,friends,powerful and awesome. Without playing second to anyone, a guy can dream can't he?

This too shall pass. Things change; at one point Scarlet Witch was badly dumped on but now all that's been retconned out and she is joining the cast of a movie that made a billion dollars. Iron Man was in the scrap heap before RD Jr. and Jon Favreau.

Not saying, Zatanna is going to headline her own movie but that characters aren't always going to stay in the gutter. At some point, somebody will pick them up and fix them.

[Enigmatic Undead]

[John Venus]

Some pics: