Netflix's The Defenders

[Michael Watkins]

i feel bad for Sigourney Weaver. it's hard to be that kind of villain; the kind with an expiration date.

[pageturner]

I think people complain way too much about Finn! As for the Defenders as a whole, not the greatest Marvel has ever done, but still a fun show!!

pretty much how i feel.

[GrandEleven]

Um.....superhero teams like the Defenders and the Avengers are all about heroes who have little in common joining forces to face threats they could not take on themseleves. Memebers indiviual comics tone wise are completly different as well, the show is sorta par for the cource on that front.

And yet that's one thing the MCU has managed to avoid: all of their movies are tonally similar and thus it makes characters very easy to interchange. It's harder to pull off that kind of trick in movies, and this series shows why.

Again: not terrible, but it was clearly a struggling issue.

[Punisher007]

she seems in control to me. i don't know what you are watching. what choice was forced upon her that wasn't in the comics?

spoilers:

Her entire life was basically manipulated by either The Hand or Stick/The Chaste. I'm sorry but that's not interesting to me. I DO NOT CARE about this version of Elektra now, which is sad because I love her most of the time. But this "destiny" Black Sky bullcrap has just ruined her character for me.

end of spoilers

[Punisher007]

Just as and upfront, none of this is really directed at you, lol, but your post was a good spring board.

The idea that she doesn't have agency is an odd one. Perhaps I'd agree that she has limited agency, with others trying to control her. As she's demonstrated plenty in both the comics and the show, however, things rarely work out for those trying to do the controlling.

And she's always been a cherished weapon of the Hand, who alternate between wanting to kill her for her betrayal to venerating her as their Dark Queen.

Maybe the Black Sky business is waaaay too vague, but it succeeded in doing something the live action version needs, and that the comics drop too often: making her superhuman.

Her whole journey in the Netflix shows is one of breaking free of constraints and forging her own path, which she does. She turns the tables on the Hand so she can try to get the substance for herself, which will allow her to freely choose her own path (even if, ironically, it means depriving Daredevil of his choices by trying to force immortality on him).

The crux of the Netflix version, which is based on TMWoF, is that she's a veritable sociopath. She isn't a villain, but she can and will use them and kill others to suit her goals.

The tragedy of Elektra is that in trying to be herself, she often finds herself in and out of a web of manipulation. Sometimes her choices are entirely her own, and sometimes they are choices shaped by those in her life (who, largely, are men).

I feel like I got a bit lost in my own path there, so apologies in advance if this post doesn't make a kick of sense...

It's an incredibly boring and cliché story that's made me not at all interested in seeing this version of her moving forward. She didn't need to go through an arc of "choosing her own path." Sorry, not interesting and the Black Sky crap was just flat-out lame. Like facepalm-inducingly so.

[tsaimelemoni]

Well, outside of specific beats like her father's death and being an actual member of the chaste before falling to the Hand, the show version is incredibly close to the comic version. Especially the manipulation by the Hand. The main difference is the influence of the TMWoF story on her personality. And imo, every character needs to go through some version of finding their own path, it's the drama and detours along the way that make things interesting.

But it's cool, lots of people don't like her in the comics, it makes sense they won't like her the show. I haven't seen many Elektra fans dissatisfied, though, and a brief view of GA response indicates the character is fairly well received. Hopefully there was something else about these shows you liked

[Haquim]

I liked Defenders a lot. Is it perfect? Surely not. Could the Fingers have been fleshed out more as credible and dangerous threats? Sure but the shorter episode count allowed for more "compact" storytelling, which I enjoyed.
And Elektra was great in this, and not only because she's badass, but mainly because of the way she expresses her love for Matt. Check out the final part of Ep 6. What happens may feel anticlimatic but it's perfect in the context of the show's development. An order is given and there are consequences. And what's whispered right before the end makes very clear why things had to go down that way.

spoilers:

In Defenders but also in DD S1 and S2 Matt has been portrayed as somewhat addicted to violence, which makes him feel keenly guilty because of his catholic upbringing. Elektra is the same but without the guilt. The final episodes and why Elektra goes along with the Hand's plan even when she doesn't care for the Hand is because she wants immortality to share it with Matt and failing that to die with him, which is what Matt wants as well apparenly.

end of spoilers

[pageturner]

spoilers:

Her entire life was basically manipulated by either The Hand or Stick/The Chaste. I'm sorry but that's not interesting to me. I DO NOT CARE about this version of Elektra now, which is sad because I love her most of the time. But this "destiny" Black Sky bullcrap has just ruined her character for me.

end of spoilers

She was a weapon of the hand in the comics as well. it was a while ago but there is a precedent.
The beauty of not liking something is no one is forced to watch anything. It is beyond peak TV and no one can watch everything so don't spend time on things you don't enjoy.

If you feel compelled to be part of the fellowship of the miserable and whine/nit pick do not feel a need to share.

[tsaimelemoni]

Even though it'll never happen, Defenders makes me want a mini series detailing the banishment and ancient adventures of the Fingers of the Hand.

[Haquim]

spoilers:

And that's a big part of my problem with the changed origin. It makes her less interesting and takes away a lot of her agency.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

She says it herself: "My name is Elektra Natchios". Not the "Black Sky" as the Alexandra kept calling her (she thought she had erased the undesirable parts of her personality, but Elektra was stronger than the brainwashing and she emerged back as herself). The thing the show changed about Elektra was her being found by the Chaste and given to the Greek ambassador as an adopted daughter, which is a pretty big change from her comics character I admit, but probably delving into the complexity that was Elektra's life story in the comics was way beyond what could be done in shows like DD and Defenders, so I'm not mad at this choice. The fact she's the "Black Sky", whatever it might be, has no impact on her character and she says it herself

end of spoilers

[DragonsChi]

Even though it'll never happen, Defenders makes me want a mini series detailing the banishment and ancient adventures of the Fingers of the Hand.

I would watch that! It would more than likely be more interesting than Agents of Shield.

[Marvel Forever]

I have toyed with getting Netflix, but have thus far resisted. If one of my favorite actresses were to star in this series, then maybe I would change my mind.

[cc008]

Watching it a second time... man some of the dialogue really is bad. Especially some of the scenes with Misty and others with Danny and Luke.

[Hypestyle]

I want to see this group again. Just getting through this series now. Wow.

[cc008]

I felt like it started slow but once they all got together it picked up. I haven't watched it in a while (Jack Ryan is really good btw) but I stand by my last comment about the dialogue being cringe worthy in a lot of instances.