Netflix's The Defenders

[GrandEleven]

Meh, honestly the whole thing was largely forgettable and completely skippable (word? is now ...).

It's not to say it was bad (with some exceptions), honestly Netflix deserves credit for making it feel as good as it did. But honestly there were way too many problems setting up this team to begin with and in the end Defenders couldn't overcome them.

The best part of this series was ... bluntly: only 8 episodes. Jessica Jones was stretched too long, Iron Fist was un-watchably long, it was good to have a a series know when to end. 8 episodes was perfect for making a series feel complete without being drawn out. Other than that ... meh piled ontop of meh.

The biggest issue was the hurdle it couldn't clear: getting 4 different characters built around 4 series that were completely tonally different from each other in every meaningful aspect. Jessica ones said it best "am I the only person who doesn't know martial arts in this town?". She's a great actress but her character, her story, it simply didn't fit. She might have been able to gel with Luke (who also had a completely different story to tell now that he has his own series), but squishing them into Daredevil's world ... it doesn't work. Instead by the time she's along side the rest of the crew she's left being ... an awkward girl reminding us she's atypical as she swigs alcohol ... cause that's the core of her character? Jessica is best a solo character where she can explore her issues ... not in a rumble in the background because no one knows how to choreograph generic brawling. Unfortunately Cage is in the same boat, only really getting to explore his character for one moment when putting Danny in his privileged place. Otherwise he's just Mr. bullet proof.

Danny was the only group member who could have slotted into this movie seamlessly ... but unfortunately the bad casting continues to plague Iron Fist from being anything but an eye sore on screen. Every fight scene where they panned away to daredevil doing all the fighting just reminded how terrible the casting idea was to put a white boy who hasn't had 10 minutes of training as the friggen Iron Fist. The kid can't even keep a straight wrist when he charges his fist (and it's such a gimmicky move I might add ... if it's about focusing chi why is it ONLY his right hand?), let alone actually fight with any grace or convincing movement. The only character that could have felt natural in this plot (heck it was about him) completely ruined by abysmal casting.

So in the end we had 3 great heroes, one fumbled one, and none of them felt natural together. None of this was really the writers fault ... it was an impossible task. A girl dealing with rape, a black guy trying to be something his people and town can believe in an oppressive world, and a couple of ninjas ... yeah good luck making that feel natural.

I'm impressed it was as good as it was ... but it was still completely forgettable.

[GrandEleven]

I still don´t understand why people are saying Iron Fist is a novice, he is one of the most skilled characters in the Netflix shows coming close to Daredevil, hell, their fight literally showed that, Matt had the upper hand but it was a close battle, not to mention Danny also had to be on guard because both Jessica and Luke were attacking him as well, there were even parts of the fight where he dodged their attacks and punched back while SIMULTANEOUSLY fighting Daredevil.

I also think that Finn Jones has done a great job, if there are any problems with the character I think it´s more due to the writers, I don´t see anything wrong with Finn´s portrayal and acting.

Because Finn can't fight. At no point did he ever look comfortable doing any of the choreography and got completely smoked by Charlie Cox. I have no idea if Charlie got training or if the suit let them swap in a comfortable stunt double, but the difference could be seen by any viewer. I mean look at his signature iron fist:



wrist is bent. Wrong set of knuckles are pressed into the palm. This isn't how the "Iron Fist" would punch, it's how he would break his hand. And this is a still shot. During actual choreography he looked even worse. You may say I'm nit picking but this is boxing 101/white belt level stuff here. He is _awful_.

EDIT: I did a quick google and Daredevil has a double: Chris Brewster who's been fighting sense he was 4 and won 13 world titles. So yeah, they got someone who could fight. So ... why couldn't they do that for Iron Fist?
http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/da...ox-1201522194/

[vitaminbee]

Because Finn can't fight. At no point did he ever look comfortable doing any of the choreography and got completely smoked by Charlie Cox. I have no idea if Charlie got training or if the suit let them swap in a comfortable stunt double, but the difference could be seen by any viewer. I mean look at his signature iron fist:



wrist is bent. Wrong set of knuckles are pressed into the palm. This isn't how the "Iron Fist" would punch, it's how he would break his hand. And this is a still shot. During actual choreography he looked even worse. You may say I'm nit picking but this is boxing 101/white belt level stuff here. He is _awful_.

EDIT: I did a quick google and Daredevil has a double: Chris Brewster who's been fighting sense he was 4 and won 13 world titles. So yeah, they got someone who could fight. So ... why couldn't they do that for Iron Fist?
http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/da...ox-1201522194/

They could have cast the guy who played the "Drunken Fighter" in the IF season... they would have gotten someone with the same amount of acting skill but also got someone who can actually fight/do choreography. Instead, they went with Finn... someone who can't do either of those things well.

[Username taken]

They could have cast the guy who played the "Drunken Fighter" in the IF season... they would have gotten someone with the same amount of acting skill but also got someone who can actually fight/do choreography. Instead, they went with Finn... someone who can't do either of those things well.

Exactly.

And to compound it they kept his face exposed throughout which doesn't help.

If he was wearing the suit a body double could come in and take over the fight scenes.

[Sutekh]

Exactly.

And to compound it they kept his face exposed throughout which doesn't help.

If he was wearing the suit a body double could come in and take over the fight scenes.

Once it was apparent that he needed a good stunt double for the fight scenes, in his own series it should have been developed upon (after he made the impulsive promise to 'make things right' to the widow and her lawyer that ended up opening Rand to massive financial liabilities) that his words *and his face* needed to be recognized as tied to Rand Enterprises, and he couldn't just bull around and say anything he wants (or get seen with Danny Rand's face kung-fu fighting in the streets). That plot point would have served as a good excuse for him to start wearing a mask, while 'kung-fu fighting,' not to protect his family ('cause they dead), but his *company* and it's reputation.

And, meta reasons, it also would make it *much* easier to use a stunt-double in the more intense fight-scenes (where Danny would know that he's going into battle, and has time to slip that bandana-mask out of his pocket). Win win. Consequences from an abandoned scene in his own series, development as he learns that he's not just responsible for himself and his 'mission,' but also for his company's reputation, and a good way to allow for Finn Jones to sit back in his chair and watch a stuntman trained in kung-fu do the heavy lifting.

[DragonsChi]

Meh, honestly the whole thing was largely forgettable and completely skippable (word? is now ...).

It's not to say it was bad (with some exceptions), honestly Netflix deserves credit for making it feel as good as it did. But honestly there were way too many problems setting up this team to begin with and in the end Defenders couldn't overcome them.

The best part of this series was ... bluntly: only 8 episodes. Jessica Jones was stretched too long, Iron Fist was un-watchably long, it was good to have a a series know when to end. 8 episodes was perfect for making a series feel complete without being drawn out. Other than that ... meh piled ontop of meh.

The biggest issue was the hurdle it couldn't clear: getting 4 different characters built around 4 series that were completely tonally different from each other in every meaningful aspect. Jessica ones said it best "am I the only person who doesn't know martial arts in this town?". She's a great actress but her character, her story, it simply didn't fit. She might have been able to gel with Luke (who also had a completely different story to tell now that he has his own series), but squishing them into Daredevil's world ... it doesn't work. Instead by the time she's along side the rest of the crew she's left being ... an awkward girl reminding us she's atypical as she swigs alcohol ... cause that's the core of her character? Jessica is best a solo character where she can explore her issues ... not in a rumble in the background because no one knows how to choreograph generic brawling. Unfortunately Cage is in the same boat, only really getting to explore his character for one moment when putting Danny in his privileged place. Otherwise he's just Mr. bullet proof.

Danny was the only group member who could have slotted into this movie seamlessly ... but unfortunately the bad casting continues to plague Iron Fist from being anything but an eye sore on screen. Every fight scene where they panned away to daredevil doing all the fighting just reminded how terrible the casting idea was to put a white boy who hasn't had 10 minutes of training as the friggen Iron Fist. The kid can't even keep a straight wrist when he charges his fist (and it's such a gimmicky move I might add ... if it's about focusing chi why is it ONLY his right hand?), let alone actually fight with any grace or convincing movement. The only character that could have felt natural in this plot (heck it was about him) completely ruined by abysmal casting.

So in the end we had 3 great heroes, one fumbled one, and none of them felt natural together. None of this was really the writers fault ... it was an impossible task. A girl dealing with rape, a black guy trying to be something his people and town can believe in an oppressive world, and a couple of ninjas ... yeah good luck making that feel natural.

I'm impressed it was as good as it was ... but it was still completely forgettable.

Um.....superhero teams like the Defenders and the Avengers are all about heroes who have little in common joining forces to face threats they could not take on themseleves. Memebers indiviual comics tone wise are completly different as well, the show is sorta par for the cource on that front.

[DragonsChi]

They could have cast the guy who played the "Drunken Fighter" in the IF season... they would have gotten someone with the same amount of acting skill but also got someone who can actually fight/do choreography. Instead, they went with Finn... someone who can't do either of those things well.

Actually.... that guy is a terrible actor. Not trying to be rude on this one since I know acting can be a challenging career. However, Lewis Tan was in love with his own hype. The guy went out of his way to pretty much bash the show he was on because he did not get the lead. But if you find clips of his actual acting....to say it nicely it's left to be desired. Even his scene as the drunken warrior was forgettable. The action was good but his line delivery is awful.

Edit: looks like the full clip of Lewis Tans scenes was taken down on youtube. There is a clip out there where he performs a death scene that is just awful. He's is an excellent martial artist but if you watch just the clips of his acting ability you will see why he can not lead a show.

[Crimz]

The show was ok. The best in it were Daredevil, Jessica, Stick and Coleen. I also liked how Luke was so out of place that none of the enemies posed a threat to him, it was hilarious.

This show made me interested in a daughters of the dragon spin-off because I love Coleen and Misty, who were the best parts of Iron Fist and Luke Cage. They also had better chemistry than Luke and Danny (thanks to Danny's poor acting).

Danny should have been played by a different actor, he just isn't strong enough as an actor to have his own show as he is a supporting character actor at best. I wonder if it's because he has to keep up the accent....

[vitaminbee]

Actually.... that guy is a terrible actor. Not trying to be rude on this one since I know acting can be a challenging career. However, Lewis Tan was in love with his own hype. The guy went out of his way to pretty much bash the show he was on because he did not get the lead. But if you find clips of his actual acting....to say it nicely it's left to be desired. Even his scene as the drunken warrior was forgettable. The action was good but his line delivery is awful.

Edit: looks like the full clip of Lewis Tans scenes was taken down on youtube. There is a clip out there where he performs a death scene that is just awful. He's is an excellent martial artist but if you watch just the clips of his acting ability you will see why he can not lead a show.

Oh I know, but it's not like it got much better with Finn jones. Anyone who says that he can act need to get their brains checked. I was equating casting someone with actual fighting skills and the same bad acting skills of Jones because at least you'd be able to get some good fight scenes out of them.

[Punisher007]

Another problem with Luke and Jessica specifically is that most of the interesting stuff with them, is personal character stuff. And that's not really here, they're just muscle basically.

Also Colleen really should have been the fourth Defender. She's been far more interesting and impressive so far than Danny, and that was certainly true here.

[Vic Vega]

spoilers:

The Black Sky stuff still continues to be lame/unnecessary (her backstory was fine as it was, no need to change it). And this show still didn't explain it in a convincing way. Her motives bounce around repeatedly, and then she has zero believable motivation after killing Alexandra.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Electra starts out as a thrill seeking homicidal nutcase, her only streak of morality was gained by her interaction with Matt. So post resurrection, when she finally remembered who she was she remembered the WORST version of herself. The Chaste AND Hand had been trying to control or destroy her all her life, she saw the opportunity to control the Hand instead and took it. Stick was the last of the Chaste so she just killed him. I think that bit was all her too.

end of spoilers

[DragonsChi]

Oh I know, but it's not like it got much better with Finn jones. Anyone who says that he can act need to get their brains checked. I was equating casting someone with actual fighting skills and the same bad acting skills of Jones because at least you'd be able to get some good fight scenes out of them.

Finn can act. Tan only gets picked up because of his martial arts skill. Take a look at some of the roles he has been in. Most of his lines are incredibly short and he's usually playing the henchmen or one off villian. Finn's only skill is his acting ability there are tons of pretty blue eyed, blonded haired,white boys in Hollywood. Heck there are even tons of blue eye, blonde haired, white boyes who know martial arts in Hollywood. People may not personally find his methods appealing but Finn got picked up because he does possess the skill to acomplish the job.

If you look at Finn previous perfomances compared to Tans then theres no question as to why one was picked over the other. While Tan may never carry his own show Finn is already working on his thrid lead series. Despite incrdibly harsh reviews from critics the general audiance as a whole enjoyed Iron Fist. So much so most social media outlets questioned if they were watching the same show as the critics. That is another testment to Finn Jones as the lead in that series. He may not be perfect and he may have a few things to work on but overall he was a good pick for the role. The continued sucess of the franchise inspite of the negativity shows that to be the case.

[Panic]

Finn is the weakest actor of the leads (reminding me a lot of a young Keanu Reeves) but he is not as bad as people make out, imo - he can act, but he's not strong enough to overcome the weaknesses of the scripts he's been saddled with. The writing is the big problem here - I don't know how much development time they had but the dialogue is bad; in places it feels like they just got the actors together and told them to improvise, and many of the awkward scenes seem to be about nothing at all. It's like they just left the camera rolling.

I've only seen five episodes so far, but Charlie Cox is the stand-out imo and actually makes the crap he's been given work; Ritter is as good as ever, but it helps that she's mainly given barbs to deliver to the others, & I continue to love Elodie Yung as Elektra, but I think it helps that she has almost no dialogue, which is a godsend when you have scripts with what sounds like first-draft dialogue. Even charismatic actors like Jessica Henwick and Rosario Dawson seem uncomfortable and awkward with what they've been given.

[Oberon]

Finn was certainly more than adequate, in my opinion. I just don't get to perfection-ist-y.

[Sutekh]

Finn is the weakest actor of the leads (reminding me a lot of a young Keanu Reeves) but he is not as bad as people make out, imo - he can act, but he's not strong enough to overcome the weaknesses of the scripts he's been saddled with.

Yeah, Danny's being written as an unlikable jerk, in four scenes out of five. In the fifth, where he's sitting around eating Chinese food with Luke, he's almost charming, and likable, but then the writing turns around and has him do something hot-headed, or act like a petulant child, or grab onto the Idiot Ball with both hands to advance the plot, and I don't think Robert Downey Jr. could save that level of cliché dialogue or unlikable characterization.

Yes, they could have picked a better actor, but then they'd just be handing a better actor the same **** sandwich and trying to get him to sell it as yummy.