Detective Comics #963 Preview

[Godlike13]

Well, they're still basically each other's love interests .

So are Dick and Babs, but Babs isn't only relevant as it pertains to Dick.

[Frontier]

So are Dick and Babs, but Babs isn't only relevant as it pertains to Dick.

Babs also has the luxury of a solo book where she can do stuff outside rehashing her relationship with Dick (even though it is getting rehashed again for the umpteenth time in the current arc) .

[Godlike13]

Babs also has the luxury of a solo book where she can do stuff outside rehashing her relationship with Dick (even though it is getting rehashed again for the umpteenth time in the current arc) .

And Steph doesn't. Regardless Steph was evolving beyond being just a Tim Drake supporting character. Its not like Tec's is Tim's book, yet even still her place in Tec just revolves around Tim.

[KrustyKid]

And Steph doesn't. Regardless Steph was evolving beyond being just a Tim Drake supporting character. Its not like Tec's is Tim's book, yet even still her place in Tec just revolves around Tim.

I'd say she past that stage Pre-52 with her Batgirl series. Even when she was introduced in the New-52, her and Tim weren't all that connected, they had minimal interactions, let alone a relationship of any kind. Let's not forget all of their history together was completely erased, something that didn't happen with the Babs/Dick or even Bruce/Salina relationships.

I see this more as building that connection/relationship back up, rather than Steph serving as a Tim latch-on. It's hard to be a support character to someone who is in limbo. I find this arc will be more about Steph gaining character growth from the current situation she is faced with more than anything. Steph's current predicament just happens to involve Tim to an extent, not revolve around him.

[millernumber1]

I'd say she past that stage Pre-52 with her Batgirl series. Even when she was introduced in the New-52, her and Tim weren't all that connected, they had minimal interactions, let alone a relationship of any kind. Let's not forget all of their history together was completely erased, something that didn't happen with the Babs/Dick or even Bruce/Salina relationships.

I see this more as building that connection/relationship back up, rather than Steph serving as a Tim latch-on. It's hard to be a support character to someone who is in limbo. I find this arc will be more about Steph gaining character growth from the current situation she is faced with more than anything. Steph's current predicament just happens to involve Tim to an extent, not revolve around him.

Well said. I think it's better to have Steph making choices that are influenced by the people she cares about rather than be cut off from people, like Babs was for too much of the early part of the n52.

[Godlike13]

I'd say she past that stage Pre-52 with her Batgirl series. Even when she was introduced in the New-52, her and Tim weren't all that connected, they had minimal interactions, let alone a relationship of any kind. Let's not forget all of their history together was completely erased, something that didn't happen with the Babs/Dick or even Bruce/Salina relationships.

I see this more as building that connection/relationship back up, rather than Steph serving as a Tim latch-on. It's hard to be a support character to someone who is in limbo. I find this arc will be more about Steph gaining character growth from the current situation she is faced with more than anything. Steph's current predicament just happens to involve Tim to an extent, not revolve around him.

Except they completely skipped over any of the actual rebuilding of the relationship. They went from meeting to being in this serious romantic relationship, with Steph acting as Tim's emotional support. Steph's current predicament is a direct result of whats going on with Tim. Her entire role and arc in 'Tec was to help sell Tim's loss. Once she did that she disappeared, and now that he's coming back she reappears. Steph and Cass use to be friends and have a relationship but what have they done with that, nothing. Like you say Tim's been in limo, there was plenty they could have still have done with Steph, but instead they wrote her out. And now here she is for two issue before "A Lonely Place Of Living" reminiscing about Tim, LoL. Steph is such a better character then this, this is sad, current Steph is just sad.

[Frontier]

Except they completely skipped over any of the actual rebuilding of the relationship. They went from meeting to being in this apparently super serious romantic relationship. Steph's current predicament is a direct result of whats going on with Tim. Her entire role and arc in 'Tec was to help sell Tim's loss. Once she did that she disappeared, and now that he's coming back she reappears. Steph and Cass use to be friends and have a relationship but what have they done with that, nothing. Like you say Tim's been in limo, there was plenty they could have still have done with Steph, but instead they wrote her out. And now here she is for two issue before "A Lonely Place Of Living" reminiscing about Tim. Steph is such a better character then this, this is sad, current Steph is just sad.

I won't argue that they did skip ahead as far as TimxSteph is concerned (although I understand why and I was also kind of just glad to have it back), and I'm not even all that crazy about her current direction either, but I think it's totally valid that she would be majorly impacted by Tim's death like this given how important he is to her and I get where Tynion is coming from with this (even if I'm not crazy about it).

Even going back into the Victim Syndicate arc you could see that Steph's motivations aren't solely about Tim, even if that's part of her drive right now.

[Godlike13]

I won't argue that they did skip ahead as far as TimxSteph is concerned (although I understand why and I was also kind of just glad to have it back), and I'm not even all that crazy about her current direction either, but I think it's totally valid that she would be majorly impacted by Tim's death like this given how important he is to her and I get where Tynion is coming from with this (even if I'm not crazy about it).

Even going back into the Victim Syndicate arc you could see that Steph's motivations aren't solely about Tim, even if that's part of her drive right now.

Im not contesting whether or not this is valid. I just personally much preferred the Steph that was out growing this, that had other characters important to her besides just Tim and had story arcs that didn't revolve around Tim. Thats the Steph i liked, not this depressing, Tim obsessed, one that only matters in relation to Tim.

[millernumber1]

Except they completely skipped over any of the actual rebuilding of the relationship. They went from meeting to being in this serious romantic relationship, with Steph acting as Tim's emotional support. Steph's current predicament is a direct result of whats going on with Tim. Her entire role and arc in 'Tec was to help sell Tim's loss. Once she did that she disappeared, and now that he's coming back she reappears. Steph and Cass use to be friends and have a relationship but what have they done with that, nothing. Like you say Tim's been in limo, there was plenty they could have still have done with Steph, but instead they wrote her out. And now here she is for two issue before "A Lonely Place Of Living" reminiscing about Tim, LoL. Steph is such a better character then this, this is sad, current Steph is just sad.

I really disagree that Steph's arc is only about selling Tim's loss. I do agree that Steph and Cass's friendship needs to be re-established, but the history pre-n52 between Steph and Cass was significantly less developed than the history between Tim and Steph. Why we can't have both is frustrating, but what's going on is much more complicated than just "Tim is gone and Steph is just a reminder of that." Additionally, we just have the opening of the issue, so you can't say that the whole arc is about Steph feeling sad about Tim.

Additionally, I think it's really weird that people want Steph to not care about Tim. One of my biggest disappointments with Steph's Batgirl run is that Tim only appears once, and in a place when he and Steph are not in a good place (though it improves) - so having Steph and Tim being connected in this way in Rebirth is something I very much appreciate.

I'm honestly more worried that they're setting up a love triangle with Tim and Anarky than anything else.

[Assam]

I do agree that Steph and Cass's friendship needs to be re-established, but the history pre-n52 between Steph and Cass was significantly less developed than the history between Tim and Steph.

Their relationship was shown off in more issues. (Many, many more issues.) Not the same thing as being more developed.

I'm honestly more worried that they're setting up a love triangle with Tim and Anarky than anything else.

I mean, if I had to choose between an Ex-Green Lantern who wanted to bring real change to the world and an ex-Robin with the current history Tim has? (We've seen nothing that says Nu52TT isn't canon anymore) Yeah, it's a pretty easy choice. Plus, Lonnie has/had a dog.

[millernumber1]

Their relationship was shown off in more issues. (Many, many more issues.) Not the same thing as being more developed.

I mean, if I had to choose between an Ex-Green Lantern who wanted to bring real change to the world and an ex-Robin with the current history Tim has? (We've seen nothing that says Nu52TT isn't canon anymore) Yeah, it's a pretty easy choice. Plus, Lonnie has/had a dog.

You are correct that quantity isn't the same as quality, but I think Dixon and Lewis did really strong work developing the relationship.

As for Steph/Lonnie shipping, I am unsurprised. I don't think that a relationship with Anarky would do anything more than marginalize Steph more, though.

[Assam]

You are correct that quantity isn't the same as quality, but I think Dixon and Lewis did really strong work developing the relationship.

And I agree. But I think, despite the HUGE difference in quantity, the build-up to Cass and Steph's friedship, and the way it ended up being portrayed made it just as strong.

As for Steph/Lonnie shipping, I am unsurprised. I don't think that a relationship with Anarky would do anything more than marginalize Steph more, though.

I was just joking. I don't support Lonnie/Steph at all. (Though I'd go for Lonnie over Tim myself ) I agree that a love triangle would be a HORRIBLE thing for Steph.

[millernumber1]

I was just joking. I don't support Lonnie/Steph at all. (Though I'd go for Lonnie over Tim myself ) I agree that a love triangle would be a HORRIBLE thing for Steph.

Hahaha. I'm mostly just really a triangle hater. It's just not a great plot in general.

[Assam]

Hahaha. I'm mostly just really a triangle hater. It's just not a great plot in general.

99% of the time, it's a bad plot, but it has worked on occasion. (Generally when the tropes are subverted.)

[Frontier]

The last thing I see this resulting in is a love triangle between Tim, Steph, and Lonnie.

Though that does sound kind of amusing and crazy now that I think about it .

Im not contesting whether or not this is valid. I just personally much preferred the Steph that was out growing this, that had other characters important to her besides just Tim and had story arcs that didn't revolve around Tim. Thats the Steph i liked, not this depressing, Tim obsessed, one that only matters in relation to Tim.

Well, I'm not seeing where she's "Tim obsessed," and I think this story arc is as much about her as it is how important to her. l also doubt she's been getting her own arcs just because she's important to Tim.

This is also a team book with a "ghost" member in Tim, more or less, so I can understand why Tim is still a factor in the storyline even when he's gone.