Changes to the Fantastic Four

[Mike]

Actually, the way to do that is to REALLY go back to basics!

Find an adventure from the past when Reed and Sue aren't yet married (so no kids yet) and the original four members of the FF use Doc Doom's time machine/platform. Have it turn out that, in an untold moment, reality splits and a separate version of the FF instead are transported into our present-day time, only to be stranded here with no way back!
(Hey, if they can do that with the original X-Men, . . . )

Really not a bad idea....

[Crimz]

Crimz - I will go along with Sue becoming a nurse. A physician might be a bit much, unless the change happened gradually. However, in order to support this upgrade in her intellect, there should be a decrease in her invisiblity/force field powers. She has become way too powerful in recent decades.

I see no reason why she should have a decrease in power because she obtains an actual career. How is she too powerful? The team faces cosmic and inter-dimensional beings often and team needs to stop solely relying on Reed to invent something to save the day. Instead of her power decreasing, Ben and Johnny's should increase.

[Alpha Male]

I think the concept would be cool for an alternate reality FF, but it won't work for the 616 ones as both Ben and Johnny have died before and Ben lives for thousands of years. I do agree with them carrying on with concepts the Ultimates left though.

In the powers you suggested, Sue can already see things that are invisible and make other things invisible too.

Does Sue have the power of discernment? I know when she and Johnny temporary swapped powers, Johnny had that ability. As for the death, I wasn't talking about them actually dying. What I was getting at was the FF on that fateful day cheated death and as a result they share a collective lifeforce.

[Alpha Male]

I see no reason why she should have a decrease in power because she obtains an actual career. How is she too powerful? The team faces cosmic and inter-dimensional beings often and team needs to stop solely relying on Reed to invent something to save the day. Instead of her power decreasing, Ben and Johnny's should increase.

As I mentioned in another post, Ben should have the ability to fire projectile rocks from his body and maybe Johnny should be able to make pyro construct from his flames.

[Crimz]

Does Sue have the power of discernment? I know when she and Johnny temporary swapped powers, Johnny had that ability. As for the death, I wasn't talking about them actually dying. What I was getting at was the FF on that fateful day cheated death and as a result they share a collective lifeforce.

No she does not have that particular power as it was a power granted by Galactus boosting the invisibility power.

I don't want the team to be anymore intertwined than they already are, I like them to to be more individualistic and the lifeforce thing may hinder that. I also don't know how that would work as Ben has been said to outlive the others by hundreds of years.

As I mentioned in another post, Ben should have the ability to fire projectile rocks from his body and maybe Johnny should be able to make pyro construct from his flames.

Johnny can already do that and I'm personally not a fan of Ben using projectile attacks. I'd rather he was stronger and faster.

[pageturner]

Crimz - I will go along with Sue becoming a nurse. A physician might be a bit much, unless the change happened gradually. However, in order to support this upgrade in her intellect, there should be a decrease in her invisiblity/force field powers. She has become way too powerful in recent decades.

I don't think it would have to be a nurse. She graduated college, I don't recall if they ever gave her a major but say it was Physc or sociology you could make her a counselor. the foundation set up could certainly use one.

Or you could make her the liaison to shield certainly in the current MU they would have to be more connected to them.

[pageturner]

I never said it should be a retcon as that would make no sense. It should happen now and some time-space stuff could speed things up without her having to age, this is the MU and crazier things happen all the time especially with this family.

Ben used to be lowest of that range of characters (Hulk, Herc etc.) his sheer will got him to hang with them when the time came, the fact that he's not even in that range anymore needs to change. The level he's at now is much lower than he should be, he should be way above Cage and Sasquatch. He's the freaking ever lovin' blue eyed Thing! Him and Johnny need to be stronger otherwise the team will always have to rely on Reed's inventions to save them from the threats they face.

I don't know how you speed up the credential and certifications a surgeon needs to obtain. That would not make a lot of sense.

Years ago they rated the strong men in the I think an issue of marvel team up. Ben was 2nd tier. That was years (decades?) ago. Ben is defined by his grit and never giving up not raw strength. He used to be rated at lifting 85 tons while Hulk was 100 plus. Wonderman, Thor, Herc were about 95. Sasquatch was close to Ben maybe 80 tons. I am doing this from memory and it was a long time ago. Cage was in the spiderman range at the time but seem to have been bumped up a lot.

My point is Ben has been at this status for a long time and excelled. Being able to lift 5 or 10 more tons will do nothing unless the stories are written that way. Johnny can already go super nova he can't be much more powerful than he is.

[Crimz]

I don't know how you speed up the credential and certifications a surgeon needs to obtain. That would not make a lot of sense.

Years ago they rated the strong men in the I think an issue of marvel team up. Ben was 2nd tier. That was years (decades?) ago. Ben is defined by his grit and never giving up not raw strength. He used to be rated at lifting 85 tons while Hulk was 100 plus. Wonderman, Thor, Herc were about 95. Sasquatch was close to Ben maybe 80 tons. I am doing this from memory and it was a long time ago. Cage was in the spiderman range at the time but seem to have been bumped up a lot.

My point is Ben has been at this status for a long time and excelled. Being able to lift 5 or 10 more tons will do nothing unless the stories are written that way. Johnny can already go super nova he can't be much more powerful than he is.

I didn't mean speed up how long it takes, but time itself. Like she could be in a place where she experiences 10 years in 1 year earth time or something, like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in Dragonball Z or another dimension like Narnia. Whenever she leaves that place she physically goes back to the age she was before. It would be a way for her to get the certifications quickly but without losing any time.

I feel like Ben needs a boost and keep up with them, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Johnny's supernova isn't on the level of an actual one and I think the level of him with the cosmic control rod would be good.

[protege]

I'm kind of bored with Franklin, so yeah, aging him up, or having him step adjacent to some sort of cosmic territory (perhaps his awesome potential is required to repair some sort of multiversal damage, and he has to transcend humanity and go become a cosmic entity, crashing with Owen Reese?) would feel better, for me. (And free up Sue to be something other than 'the mom.')

Right now there feels like there's a Fantastic Four shaped void that needs filling. Reed has, in the relatively recent past, suggested that there shouldn't *not* be a Fantastic Four, even for a second, when he recruited Scott Lang, Jennifer Walters, Medusa and Darla Deering to stand in for them, so it's inconsistent for him not to care that there isn't a Fantastic Four at present, even if he's not on it.

And while it runs the risk of retreading Thunderbolts ground, it could be interesting to see some villain-ish types attempt to claim the mantle, for far less sinister reasons than Zemo did. A group consisting of the Wizard (experimenting with the good-guy role out of sheer scientific curiosity/pragmatism, even if his heart isn't really in it), Sandman (in one of his various face turn phases), Dragon-Man (just doing what he's told) and Songbird (wondering why she has to be the moral center for teams like this, is she cursed?), could be interesting as a short 'filler' run that ends up serving as 'proof' that the 616 universe needs the *real* Fantastic Four back, and not just any four super-folk willing to operate out of 4 Freedoms Plaza.

I really like the more sentient dragon man, so whatever you do, don't mess with that.

[protege]

so you just explain she has been in pre med and med school in the past and has done an internship and residency? I don't mind a retcon but that is too extreme.

Hulk is the strongest there is Ben should not be too close to that. Odinson, Herc, and Wonderman are the only ones who should be close.

Leave him with Sasquatch, Colossus, Cage ( I guess) and Namor that is plenty strong enough.

Have we ever seen the hulk vs. wonder man?

[Alpha Male]

No she does not have that particular power as it was a power granted by Galactus boosting the invisibility power.

I don't want the team to be anymore intertwined than they already are, I like them to to be more individualistic and the lifeforce thing may hinder that. I also don't know how that would work as Ben has been said to outlive the others by hundreds of years.



Johnny can already do that and I'm personally not a fan of Ben using projectile attacks. I'd rather he was stronger and faster.

You can still have Ben live hundreds of years and still have the concept of collective lifeforce. What meant by that wasn't so much immortality or longevity, but having some type psychic link or bond which would allow them to switch powers. It would be similar to Power Pack except the switch would be temporary. It would only last a day.

I'm not sold on the Thing running faster idea as it would make him like Juggernaunt. I do think that airplane pilot experience needs to be played up more.

[Alpha Male]

Other changes I would make to the Fantastic Four would be for a floor of The Baxter Building to be a Fantastic Four Museum. Marvel doesn't have a superhero museum and it would be nice if it was in the Baxter Building.

Also, I would have more new villains and heroes appear in the Fantastic Four. One of the plot threads I always felt they should pick up is the Lazerfist. I would like to see that character return and have his powers explained. I always thought that the Negative Zone should have their own heroes emerge from that world. It doesn't make sense that they have all those threats and no one within to challenge them and keep it in check. Subterranea needs some heroes as well. What about a hero who happens to be a Lava Man?

Sharon Ventura aka Miss Thing needs a revamp. I would change her code name and her powers and separate her more from The Thing. Ventura would have the power to turn isolated parts of her into the Thing form like her hands and be able to absorb rocks which would increase her strength and size. Her new code name would be Rock Pile and she would be able to turn back and forth at will and alter her Thing form.

[Alpha Male]

Continuing my post on new characters I always felt there should be an evil version of the Fantastic Four led by an evil version of Sue from one of Uatu's What If Worlds. This version would have dark hair instead of blonde hair and would be more of a manipulator and schemer. She would be aided by alternate versions of Ben, Johnny and Reed and their powers would be different from the 616 counterparts. Basically, they would be Crime Syndicate meets the Four from Interplanetary.

[pageturner]

Have we ever seen the hulk vs. wonder man?

We must have but I am drawing a blank.

[pageturner]

I didn't mean speed up how long it takes, but time itself. Like she could be in a place where she experiences 10 years in 1 year earth time or something, like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in Dragonball Z or another dimension like Narnia. Whenever she leaves that place she physically goes back to the age she was before. It would be a way for her to get the certifications quickly but without losing any time.

I feel like Ben needs a boost and keep up with them, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Johnny's supernova isn't on the level of an actual one and I think the level of him with the cosmic control rod would be good.

so med school in some other dimensions? Are those credits transferable?