Changes to the Fantastic Four

[Digifiend]

Sharon Ventura aka Miss Thing needs a revamp. I would change her code name and her powers and separate her more from The Thing. Ventura would have the power to turn isolated parts of her into the Thing form like her hands and be able to absorb rocks which would increase her strength and size. Her new code name would be Rock Pile and she would be able to turn back and forth at will and alter her Thing form.

Sharon was She-Thing, not Miss Thing. Miss Thing is Darla Deering from the second FF volume (the one with Ant-Man, She-Hulk and Medusa as the other team members), who uses rings to form a Thing armor (inherited from Ben, who once used them when he was depowered).

Also, Sharon was apparently cured at some point between Fantastic Four #645 and Captain America Sam Wilson #15 - she was seen wrestling in human form in that issue, wearing her original Ms. Marvel uniform.

[protege]

Other changes I would make to the Fantastic Four would be for a floor of The Baxter Building to be a Fantastic Four Museum. Marvel doesn't have a superhero museum and it would be nice if it was in the Baxter Building.

Also, I would have more new villains and heroes appear in the Fantastic Four. One of the plot threads I always felt they should pick up is the Lazerfist. I would like to see that character return and have his powers explained. I always thought that the Negative Zone should have their own heroes emerge from that world. It doesn't make sense that they have all those threats and no one within to challenge them and keep it in check. Subterranea needs some heroes as well. What about a hero who happens to be a Lava Man?

Sharon Ventura aka Miss Thing needs a revamp. I would change her code name and her powers and separate her more from The Thing. Ventura would have the power to turn isolated parts of her into the Thing form like her hands and be able to absorb rocks which would increase her strength and size. Her new code name would be Rock Pile and she would be able to turn back and forth at will and alter her Thing form.

Honestly, I liked sharon ventura a lot better before she became a thing.

[Alpha Male]

Sharon was She-Thing, not Miss Thing. Miss Thing is Darla Deering from the second FF volume (the one with Ant-Man, She-Hulk and Medusa as the other team members), who uses rings to form a Thing armor (inherited from Ben, who once used them when he was depowered).

Also, Sharon was apparently cured at some point between Fantastic Four #645 and Captain America Sam Wilson #15 - she was seen wrestling in human form in that issue, wearing her original Ms. Marvel uniform.

I didn't know that. I often get She-Thing and Miss-Thing confused so my bad. I still wouldn't mind seeing Ventura with some type of power upgrade or modification.

[CaptCleghorn]

Sue's potential medical background.

It hink a lot could be done with this. A medical background would give her a reason to actually be on the flight in the first place. It also fits in nicely with her father's profession. She's certainly smart enough to earn an MD. With the differences in life between 1961 and 2017 I'd imagine Sue's background especially could be tweaked. Sue could have completed a fraction of medical training by the time of the flight. How much? Who knows?

Would Sue have wanted to become a surgeon? I'm not sure. I can see her having a desire to do so. Certainly she'd have the ability and will to do so. I can see a medical career being thrown off the tracks by getting super powers. Finishing up the process could be an issue for Sue. Personally, being a surgeon or a researcher might make her a little too much like Reed in her thought processes and personality. It's probably sexist, but I see her as wanting to deal with patients more than solving problems. If I were to direct Sur's medical plan, oncology would be at the top of the list. Sue's a mother figure, yes, but she's good at it because she handles feelings. It's more than finding an optimal plan for her.

I think Sue would be the ideal face for the F4, if not a lot of the super-hero community. She's smart, attractive, well spoken and able to think on her feet. I would love to see Sue being a public figure with a celebrity status. The FF have a very public presence in the MU. Why shouldn't someone be the face of superheroing? And why not Sue? She's a traditional family woman. Certainly the one with the greatest public knowledge of her life.

Anyway, as long as her family's rewriting the multiverse, why can Sue get an MD along with Vic's fixed face?

[JackDaw]

I think one thing most contributors in thread probably agree on is that next series should see spotlight turn away from Reed and onto other members.

Highlighting existing skills (e.g. Ben as pilot) and adding new skills (e.g. Sue as para-medic) would be important to that.

But equally important I'd suggest would be some overarching story telling reason for Reed to become less central.

It's here where Future Foundation could be important. Reed might well consider that it's important for them to develop their scientific and other skills without him " looking other their shoulders all time"...to speed up point they can manage on their own.

Therefore Johhny might be forced to be leader more on field trips...cementing his new maturity. Ben could be shown as training the kids as pilots...in process it becoming apparent how difficult it is, and how outstanding a pilot he is. And Sue could be shown as having a strong reason to increase her skills in first aid and indeed in other key areas.

[Za Waldo]

I'd just do Jonny Quest. It'd just be weird little fun adventure stories where this family and whatever tag along characters they have around them get into all manners of strange things. It seems completely and utterly bizarre to me how seeming no one can figure out how to make their formula work for them in a world where stuff like Jonny Quest and Rick and Morty are things that work so well.

I'd also go back to something more along the lines of their original personalities. They were all more interesting and more fun when they were assholes.

[Sutekh]

Johnny can already do that and I'm personally not a fan of Ben using projectile attacks. I'd rather he was stronger and faster.

Yeah, power boosts are, IMO, the laziest way to 'beef up' a character. Uber-powerful characters, like the Sentry, Phoenix, etc. quickly become unusable, and get written off screen or killed or have their powers stripped away (and, if they are women, like Jean or Wanda, go crazy because 'women can't handle power'...).

Plus if Ben wants a ranged attack, he can throw a rock (or car...) with 70-plus tons of force. That beats any gun ever made, except maybe the 'Paris Gun' used by the Germans to bombard Paris. He surely doesn't need another super-power to knock someone out of the sky.

[JackDaw]

Yeah, power boosts are, IMO, the laziest way to 'beef up' a character. Uber-powerful characters, like the Sentry, Phoenix, etc. quickly become unusable, and get written off screen or killed or have their powers stripped away (and, if they are women, like Jean or Wanda, go crazy because 'women can't handle power'...).

Plus if Ben wants a ranged attack, he can throw a rock (or car...) with 70-plus tons of force. That beats any gun ever made, except maybe the 'Paris Gun' used by the Germans to bombard Paris. He surely doesn't need another super-power to knock someone out of the sky.

Depends on what is meant by power boost, of course.

I'm certainly a big fan of Ben being made substantially faster...notice-ably faster than the other Marvel powerhouses.

This would have several advantages.

First it would give him a point of difference from all the other "Strong Guys" ("copyright" Peter David's X-Factor).

Second it would make him competitive in fights again, take him back to his origins as one of Marvel's pre-eminent battlefield tanks. (If we're remotely honest...there's any number of Hulks, mutants, and other characters have left him far behind.)

Third..exceptional speed would allow him to play some excellent practical jokes on Johnny...he's "owed" a few.

[Paul O'Neal]

There's a lot of good suggestions, but I am going to do an odd one; take inspiration from the Venture Bros. cartoon series. Hear me out - showing character growth is a good thing, but if they all start getting along fine, a big part of what makes the FF great is lost. And that's the family dynamic. They should get on each other's nerves from time to time.
- Ben should still be mopey and angry from time to time. But sometimes he should be a cool, tough guy uncle with a lot of stories and a knack for getting into fights. "Hold my beer."
- Johnny should still have moments where he's a big kid. He should be all over the place, jumping from project to project. Responsible, yes, but easily bored. "Today I'm doing a reality TV series! Tomorrow I'm competing in NASCAR!"
- Reed should have moments where he's distracted in the lab, and others where he's gung-ho about getting out in the field and dragging everyone along. He loves and cares for his family and shows it in spontaneous ways, but he's kind of like Indiana Jones meets Bill Nye. "This is going to be amazing, everyone! We're off to the Cretaceous to find the robot dinosaur of Island X in its natural habitat 50 million years ago! Don't forget the bug spray."
- Sue should be exasperated with them, and at the same time heading up some major charity work, being a team mom, and occasionally ditching them all for a day out with Jan, Jen, and the gals. She can also have fun with anyone in the family. "Ha! I told Johnny I'd beat his time on the quarter mile! And Ben still has no idea that I can turn the backing on his poker cards invisible. He's into me for five large right now."
- Make Franklin and Val teenager and pre-teen. And with all that entails. "Moooom!"
- The Villains: Have some of them come across like arching villains in the Venture Brothers. The Wizard and the Frightful Four? Obsessed nutjobs. Doctor Doom? Make him an anti-Reed - or better yet, a classier version of Rick Sanchez from Rick & Morty. He's raiding sites for valuable artifacts, time traveling to gain resources and play the international markets, using science and magic to conquer the world in a slow, subtle way, all to show up Reed. Have the baddies range from dangerous loonies to annoying stalkers, with the odd cosmic menace showing up. More than anything, the villains should be a by-product of the FF's adventures.
- Weird is cool and fun. The FF should embrace that ethos. Have things like time loops, other-dimensional doppelgangers, benign aliens, intergalactic shopping trips, and so on juxtaposed against the day-to-day grind of family life.

I honestly think the Fantastic Four should borrow from its descendants - Venture Bros., Rick & Morty, and so on. The popularity of such shows means there is a market out there for family dramedy mixed with weird science hijinks. Make it weird. make it fun, make them not get along sometimes. Lee & Kirby set the tone 55+ years ago. All it needs is a fresh coat of paint, not a reinvention.

[Agent Z]

Crimz - I will go along with Sue becoming a nurse. A physician might be a bit much, unless the change happened gradually. However, in order to support this upgrade in her intellect, there should be a decrease in her invisiblity/force field powers. She has become way too powerful in recent decades.

Why would her having medical knowledge need her to be lowered in power?

[Crimz]

so med school in some other dimensions? Are those credits transferable?

Who knows, stranger things have happened in the Marvel universe.

[CaptCleghorn]

The FF has operated best as a combination of cosmic explorers and a suburbanesque nuclear family. That's pretty much what they are.

It's not a difficult concept to get, but it can be tough to do it right. When there are calls for changes in membership, even for a totally different roster, that's not the FF. Sure there are guest stars and substitute members but the four are the four. Reed, Sue, Ben, and Johnny are coming back as sure as Bruce turns green, Steve throws the shield, and Tony wears the armor. The FF is unlike most every other comic super team in that they are a team/family that gained powers as opposed to people who got powers and formed a team.

When the FF encounters a new setting, each member of the team reacts differently. When Stan and Jack created the team (actually took Rip Hunter's team or the Sea Devils and expanded on them considerably) they spread personality traits among them in order to have a better variety of reactions and conflicts. The original Star Trek used Kirk, Spock, and McCoy as Ethos, Logos, and Pathos and was able to tell great stories with a small cast of regulars. Treat the FF the same way. Some of the four would react one way, others another way to various happenings.

I keep going on about family. Critics gushed over Breaking Bad and Sopranos because of their mix of regular family activities and extraordinary events. We don't need another "Avengers", "Guardians", or "Ultimates" book. Coming up with permanent replacements kills what makes the FF different.

And the kids. Grow them up already. Franklin should have been 10 or so when Secret Wars started (He was still a couple of years younger than Katie Power). Val was 5. Add a few years for multiverse building and "boom", you've got kids at 15 and 10. Use the Future Foundation. I want to see kids from different areas of the Marvel Universe, each with their own talents. I want Moon Girl to be here too. Lunella and Val need to deal with each other. Have fun with the kids, but always remember they are all different with a different focus and attitude. Can this be two different books again? I'd hope so as FF would be another great kids book.

I've spoken about Sue at length. I also agree she, Ben, and Johnny need a greater share of focus and attention. Ben and Johnny have a good amount of outside FF adventuring. Surely they've come across something. This might be the toughest part of writing the F4, though. When we look at DC's four member teams whose membership the FF swiped, we see the lead scientist getting the focus and his three partners pretty much disappeared. Are any of Rip Hunter's Silver Age team on DC's Legends of Tomorrow? Do any of Cave Carson's team have a cybernetic eye? The new Two-In-One book hopefully will give us some good stories for Ben and Johnny. Ben's had a long running team-up book and has more hero contacts than the other FF members.

What would I change for the Fantastic Four? Seriously not much. The basic setting and characters are well defined and capable of carrying a series (or two). But I love the idea of the book so I could be biased.

[Digifiend]

There's probably a good reason why Rip Hunter's silver age team has vanished in the comics and wasn't used on TV - with them, he's basically a prototype of Doctor Who (I'd say copy, but Rip actually came first - the BBC probably didn't know he existed though). And of course, Arthur Darvill, who plays Rip on Legends, was actually in Doctor Who from 2010 to 2012, though not as the Doctor.

[CaptCleghorn]

There's probably a good reason why Rip Hunter's silver age team has vanished in the comics and wasn't used on TV - with them, he's basically a prototype of Doctor Who (I'd say copy, but Rip actually came first - the BBC probably didn't know he existed though). And of course, Arthur Darvill, who plays Rip on Legends, was actually in Doctor Who from 2010 to 2012, though not as the Doctor.

The point is that for the Sea Devils and Rip Hunter, the books featured a scientist, his GF, his brawny tough buddy and his GF's little brother.. Cave Carson's GF and the young kid weren't siblings, but still there was the same four people. Stan didn't look too hard to get a group for his superhero book. There was clearly more of an effort on Marvel's part to make this a team and not just a scientist and his posse. the Human Torch strip in Strange Tales shows this. However, Reed's the guy. Despite Marvel doing what they can to make the other members relevant, there's still a struggle to equalize the importance of the four members.

[Oberon]

Well, I have pondered this question for many years and I keep coming back to the same answer. There simply must be a change in the Fantastic Four line-up. Now this does not necessarily mean that one or two of the founding members must go, though such is worthy of serious consideration. You could keep Reed, Ben, Johnny and Sue, while adding one or two new members. Regardless, there is no doubt in my mind that the original FF quartet is just not that popular anymore. Actually, my idea might be worthy of it's own thread?

Keep the four, more or less, but use extra folks to help out. In the '70s, around the time of #200, an alternate Reed (possibly the first one we saw?) terrorized the crew and Tigra, Thundra and Impossible Man helped out and stayed around for a while.

In Defalco's run we had Namor and Scott Lang Antman as extra members without being the four, as well.

So maybe the four just needs more guest stars that would complement them.