MCU: How different would the X-men be in Disney's hands?

[Jaddor]

How can you talk about taking things seriously when you just wrote that? I...

Sony did better ...way better with sam raimi movies and the hard evidence says so. reason they want to push their spidey verse and get him back ASAP.
MCU movies overall have gotten so stale, worse and formulaic that there is nothing new they are bringing to the genre only hate from film artist who blames mcu for dumbing down cinema.. all they depend on now is team ups and gimmicks and my gosh brain fart jokes. please do you think disney wants xmen for quality? they dont, what they want is to stay relevant and make people talk about something new,,,but you dont do that by making constant cgi lame driven movies you do that by pushing the genre aka what new mutants did with their simple teaser trailer..

.people are curious to see a comic horror film true to the xmen lore and keeping fingers cross that it works. People are thinking higher than just the silly poprcon comic film that mcu only has. New mutants started a new conversation which is good for the genre that is so overcrowded with mcu cartoon driven movies.

If fox had thor, spiderman and gotg with the right people..these is how it would have been

GOTG 2 = A space odyssey type of feel

Thor 3 = Lord of the rings

Spiderman Homecoming = follow up of spiderman 2 or a follow up to spiderman tas and the clone saga.

All different but all good and all worthy of the marvel of old. We would not have had 3 lighted hearted formulaic generic movies that seems to appeal only children first and all, who will not care in 5 years.

[Jaddor]

make logan the right height....
but no the 1st 3 movies for me felt like there where all about Logan.
To say that we actually had a good x men movie.... sorry but we have not love them but blahhhh

good xmen movies is a hot topic due to the nature of xmen. but those movies are still high and above what disney MCU is offering us because mcu movies are not even good films or real movies. i have seen x-fans who write fanfictionS better than the plot of mcu movies.

Give us xfans X2 and DOFP over any mcu movies. this is not jokes , co-operate film souless film making and cgi fest. this is real drama and serious comic films here.

[WebLurker]

[QUOTE=Jaddor;3239446]

interesting for a person that tired so hard to discredit the impact of TAS because it embarrasses the mcu movies big time...

I've never said that. What I've said is that in the history of animation, the X-Men cartoon is a blip on the radar, at best, even if it has some kind of importance to it's own franchise, and that the MCU is not bad because it it's not always a drama. Those are two different things with no relevance to each other. Which is kind of the problem with this argument. The X-Men cartoon and what it is has nothing to do with the MCU, much less why one is better or worse than the other; one was a Saturday morning kids cartoon from the '90s, the other is a blockbuster movie series from the present. Two totally different mediums, so there is no comparing them.

...or worse thinks spiderman has more classic story lines than xmen...yeah not really. though spidey is quite close ...other marvel ip....no where close.

I don't think I said that. I might've said that Spider-Man is more iconic than X-Men (he's the third most popular superhero of all time and Marvel's flagship character vs. the X-Men being a popular franchise), but that is different from more iconic stories.

still LOLing at xmen evolution as having more impact? LAMO

As I understand it, the '90s cartoon may have raised awareness of the source material and been a gateway for people into the franchise, either as readers, creators, or both. However, aside from a briefly-lived lived comic continuation, that's about it. It didn't give anything to the larger franchise in terms of new materials, new ways of looking at the franchise (although it was designed to adapt comic stories, not tell new ones, with all the pros and cons that come with it), or anything that would impact future materials.

Evolution, while maybe not quite as high profile as a series itself, created X-23. This is a character, who was only intended to be in a couple of episodes (and was a plot device for Wolverine series), became a breakout character twice over (transitioning to the comics and not only stayed around, but got several solo series and is still very active when other new character from her time have fallen into obscurity), and was one of the most popular things about Logan to the point that there's planning for the character to get her own spin-off movie (something even far better established characters have largely failed to do, much less months after their cinematic debuts). So, Evolution having more impact; that's not up for debate. (Even Wolverine and the X-Men made a bigger mark than the '90s show in a practical way, with the MRDs transitioning into the comics).

However, evolution still had more maturity, seriousness and dark elements than all the mcu movies do too because that is just the natural content of xmen regardless of how it is interpreted in other mediums.

Maybe, but it still could be quite silly on occasion.

sony had the opportunity to prove spiderman's legacy as the other marvel IP apart from xmen that has surprised marvel to the point that they dint even need the marvel disney brand and sony made the wrong decision, now they regret it.

Lets see, their own movies were not doing that well since 2007 (and I'm saying that as someone who, like Joss Whedon, generally thinks well of Spider-Man 3) and they were struggling to get their own Spidey cinematic universe up and running. Then, the make the deal with Disney that gets them a successful Spidey movie that's also well-received and revitalizes their plans to make more movies off other Spidey characters. The deal was the best Spidey thing for Sony since Spider-Man 2 and I don't see how they're regretting it.

as I always say it is not my fault xmen always makes other marvel ip look idiotic, try to take that up with disney that chose to destroy and dumb those other marvel IP down.

It's not my fault either that you have to tear down a movie series you don't like to justify liking a series and cartoon (that has nothing to do with the movie series you don't like) that you do.

[WebLurker]

yes a story about time travel, you miss the point about what we call grounded, for a fan of xmen. its called grounded as fiction can get while still keeping the fantasy elements. and you can start with the movies that look as real as they can get and tell more stories. um, you know how most mcu movies look like a cartoon and have zero plot? that is not grounded...that is not fictional reality as we call it or magical realism as it is know as in folklore, explore here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism

I think you missed the point I was making. The franchise is not all drama and grounded stuff; it has dealt with the less gritty and can coexist with lighter fare. Heck, the only X-Men comic series I'm reading has a good sense of humor and is both funny and dramatic.

ay yes, spielberg, but he never praised it as high art. and that is 1 person, spielberg hated most of the mcu movies reason he said the genre will die like western. and it is not just him it is many. alan taylor, james mangold, chris nolan, ,mickey rouke, ridley scott, chris pine, fincher, Simon Pegg, ed norton. and more. you can have these many artists tell us mcu movies are awful and have it not be true...because it is. we xmen fans say it too.

Cherry-picking opinions is not a credible argument (and actors are an appeal to authority; not all actors are experienced in all the fields that make good films). Also, being an X-Men fan does not automatically make you an expert on what makes a movie good.

Lol. lets not make excuses for Disney since we know disney will never make the demon bear saga...

Okay, I was joking a bit, but the MCU properties made so far haven't needed to be that gritty due to the source materials in question, so I don't think it's a fair complaint.

...disney has the rights to daredevil and they dumped him on line...

Speculation without concrete facts.

...they have the right to spiderman and than made him the male version of sweet life zack and cody.

All I can say is that Homecoming was a faithful to the spirit of the source material and I'm saying that as a Spidey fan.

...also remember when feige said mcu will never be dark or serious?

Which is not a bad thing in and of itself. Good, quality movies can and have been made within these parameters.

so it is of fact many movies like dofp,logan or new mutants will never be made by disney and um, Ragnarok is suppose to be dark and serious right? based on the comics and norse mythology...yet it is their funniest and light weight kids appeal movie yet. no thanks.

Can't say, since I haven't seen Thor 3 yet, but I do know that just because I or you don't like something, that doesn't make it a bad movie.

Yep, in that video I posted of claremont , he laid down how to make an xmen movie. sounded very anti mcu. chris even said xmen unlike the avengers are something more than the basic hero stuff.. argue with claremont and not with me. add many legendary film makers saying it too.

Appeal to authority (Claremont is not a filmmaker) and cherrypicking opinions.

At this point, XMen in the MCU has become nothing more but hearsay. all I see here is just basic facts getting ignored so the Disney supporters can try and make it happen, thankfully that seems to be crashing too, it is only natural anyway. who looks at the teaser of deadpool 2 and new mutants and say Disney mcu is a good fit for xmen. NO ONE.

For the last time, I don't want to see an MCU X-Men movie either. I think both the Fox and MCU series have good things going and I don't want either screwed up by putting the peanut butter in the chocolate. Also, you're not correcting facts, you're trying to justify you opinions since not everyone agrees with you. If you don't like a series of movies, fine, that's okay. Passing off opinions and faulty reasoning as iron-clad fact and making weird assumptions about users who disagree with you (esp. when that goes against what they've been saying), well, to quote the Wolverine himself: "Not okay!"

Wait isnt fox greenhtening deadpool? or is that an mcu movie, last I heard deadpool was made to be anti Marvel, reason he worked.

Last I heard, Deadpool worked because it had good production values and acting, and the movie captured what people liked about the character (I didn't see it, since I wasn't interested, but that's my understanding).

ah something good about xmen like using comic book movies to tell real stories about the world instead of using and abusing cgi like marvel DOES

Can't speak to the former, but without CGI, X-Men could not exist in live action.

so how does X2 epilogue still true to the concept of mutants compared to your mcu take on SHIELD toy puppets based on the xmen LORE?

Both versions are part of the lore and allow for the exploration of different themes on the same spectrum.

funny, look what happened to homecoming.

Yeah, it was a success and not like an X-Men movie. Shocking, I know.

the awkward moment when Claremont implied XMEN movies should not be as generic as avengers because of their content loving the facts of what makes xmen ticks. its like a tumour for marvel disney.

Appeal to authority (again).

wake me up when marvel makes a DOFP or LOGAN.

May I use an air horn?

ah, that is not marvel. that is not marvel diseny creating that cartoon. that is FX, u know, Like Legion is not marvel disney MCU.

Not relevant to the question if the MCU movies are good or bad.

UM, Marvel created etter than DOFP OR LOGAN. Not according to film making, long time comic book fans and film art and reception. marvel creates what james mangold and david fincher say they create and mcu even admits it.

Which is not a bad thing in and of itself. Variety of movies is a good thing.

Generic xmen movies as in blowing up city, making jokes turning a serious end of the word story to a full comedy and loose ends on serious themes. thise are mcu movies not xmen, those are generic.

You just described Last Stand, Days of Future Past, and Apocalypse.

1. I really really really want to know about this formula. But if your answer is action+humour+mostly lighthearted tone=formulaic story telling, then don't bother.

2. This is going to rile up a lot of people, but Logan is probably more formulaic than any of the MCU movies. What? An aged former hero/legend who has become a shadow of his past self reluctantly takes on a last mission that gets him. You've never seen that movie before?

3. Being formulaic doesn't mean bad. It's not some great criticism a lot of you make it out to be.

Magneto can ally with our protagonists and then betray them in three movies, Weapon X sequence appears in five movies, Xavier and Magneto can have the same old argument in six movies, Mystique can learn the same exact lesson she learned one movie ago, Phoenix can be set up two times, Wolverine can have trouble with his healing factor twice, Xavier can die twice, Jean can die thrice... it's all fine. But my god if MCU uses some cinematic tropes which every movie released under the sun uses.

How can you talk about taking things seriously when you just wrote that? I...

Thank you!

[stormphoenix]

We need cartoons and video games. That’s all I care for

[Wiccan]

Sony did better ...way better with sam raimi movies and the hard evidence says so. reason they want to push their spidey verse and get him back ASAP.
MCU movies overall have gotten so stale, worse and formulaic that there is nothing new they are bringing to the genre only hate from film artist who blames mcu for dumbing down cinema.. all they depend on now is team ups and gimmicks and my gosh brain fart jokes. please do you think disney wants xmen for quality? they dont, what they want is to stay relevant and make people talk about something new,,,but you dont do that by making constant cgi lame driven movies you do that by pushing the genre aka what new mutants did with their simple teaser trailer..

.people are curious to see a comic horror film true to the xmen lore and keeping fingers cross that it works. People are thinking higher than just the silly poprcon comic film that mcu only has. New mutants started a new conversation which is good for the genre that is so overcrowded with mcu cartoon driven movies.

If fox had thor, spiderman and gotg with the right people..these is how it would have been

GOTG 2 = A space odyssey type of feel

Thor 3 = Lord of the rings

Spiderman Homecoming = follow up of spiderman 2 or a follow up up spiderman tas and the clone saga.

All different but all good and all worthy of the marvel of old. We would not have had 3 lighted hearted formulaic generic movies that seems to appeal only children first and all, who will not care in 5 years.

I personally liked the original trilogy(well, the first 2 at least) better too. But to say that the Sony-Marvel partnership was a bad thing for Sony, and that they "learned from it" it's just plain delusional. Even if Homecoming is/was bad(I personally thought it was much better than the Garfield ones at least), it was in no way a failure over the previous reboot. I will stop here cause I know how your posts go lol.

[TooFlyToFail]

Getting mixed signals here.

Here's a video that explains my Homecoming criticism:



Fox has always gotten it's leading characters (main characters of the stories in their movies) right.

[Carabas]

Fox has always gotten it's leading characters (main characters of the stories in their movies) right.

It has gotten three characters right (and I'm actually not at all convinced about the young Xavier now that I think of it), only one of which is supposed to be a leading character in an X-Men movie.

[Jaddor]

We need cartoons and video games. That’s all I care for

no , not in the disney age.
their video games are awful...lol at MvC 4.
Marvel should just let DC and WB make xmen video games, the way fox makes their movies
Marvel animation....so embarrassing to watch today....more reason TAS is still very celebrated today as arguably the greatest comic tv show only batman tas can surpass.
ah, even apocalypse quotes on the show has its own google search today.
Ah, long gone are the greatness of marvel animation.


TAS stlll lives on but we need an xmen show that will offically surpass the greatness of TAS, disney can not do that and it is fact.

[Jaddor]

Here's a video that explains my Homecoming criticism:



Fox has always gotten it's leading characters (main characters of the stories in their movies) right.

exactly as I always say fox does well with the characters they choose to focus on and since fox makes their movie with a drama approach, you have to limit your characters to make a good drama. their 4-5 leads for each film are quite good unlike the main lead in MCU tony that gets sillier and siller with each movie because the sillier the character the more accessible they are for kids. its just pure advertising mechandising, trust me I know this when I used to watch power rangers in the 90s.

homecoming just make me laugh, the press and disney are trying to spin the movie as successful when the truth say the direct oppsite and it is the end for spidey because with the sequel, Disney will want more money and that means more avengers stuff and less spidey stuff, which is just an insult to the character. who is maybe the 3rd comic IP that can more than carry his own universe after batman and xmen.

[Jaddor]

!

Ah, importance to own franchise and comic tv shows and marvel animation and just redefining what comic cartoons are thanks to the adult content and deep story telling. You ingoring this will not stop it from been factual.
The xmen cartoons has a lot to do with the mcu because it shows that Disney fails at making xmen movies if they can not make their own movies as compelling as tas. Two different medium? Not really since TAS was meant to appeal to grown ups first and kids second.

Ah spidey and xmen. The marvel two big 2 that succeeded in every medium for more than 50 years and counting. Let me put it this way. Like DC, Spidey is superman, xmen was batman. Superman is DC most iconic hero but batman has the better stories, better content and the bigger fandom and became big enough to in a way outgrow DC. That is what X-Men is to marvel.

Xmen tas and xmen evolution. Both good shows both superior to mcu movies. Its laughable to me at this point to think any mcu movies can be as thick or compelling as the last episodes of evolution.

Lol. Wolverine and the xmen had more impact than TAS.LMAO. NO. Evolution was quite silly on occasion, MCU Disney are always silly so silly that even their own actors quit. marvel animation gives silly a new name,
If the deal was best sony, it would have reflected. The film was kind of a flop, it was forgettable and it divided the spidey fanbase. If the deal was best sony would stopped their furture plans and people would not want sam ramimi back. The deal was a disaster for sony and Disney and they know it...ah all that fake hype and at the end ...nothing. Ah yes...well received because it is fun. Sorry but we grew up at a time when spiderman was well received because sam raimi used him as a character study to be the every man and not some tool to sell toys like disney.

Nope, did not tear any series down, i just said the facts on why other mcu ip are bad and need to be lumped together branded by disney and the reason xmen should be kept away for xmen’s own credibility and reputation. We do not want a series like xmen that inspired the Nolan batman movies to become about jokes and mindless fun.
At the core of xmen is drama and grounded stuff and for a film that has only 2.5 hours.,, that is what should matter most. legion that is a tv show of 8 episodes had more drama than action.

I did not cherry pick, it is becoming a collective opinion by many film artists that mcu movies are awful. Funny they never said so in the days of X2, Batman begins, spidermn 2 (early 2000s) the genre had real credibility then.

You should read more about norse mythology. Raganrok stands of gritty and serious and The mandarin was a real terrorist, They are not comedians or light hearted.
It is of fact that daredevil is on the internet and not in film, at least fox could make a movie of daredevil because fox can handle the content. Mcu can’t. That is fact not speculation.

You not seeing thor 3 does not stop you knowing what the film is like. pick up your internet card you were trying to give me.
Ah, but claremont is the godfather of xmen, he made these series,. What he says goes when it comes to films. Claremont is far more credible than Disney on how to make an xmen movie. fact.

LOL.......If you don’t want to see an mcu xmen movies, your posts will not even be here trying to make xmen look as generic as the mcu so it can fit in there. No thanks
Hm, do you know the deadpool film was made because the director hated mcu movies. ITS Chris Nolan 2.0 type of mcu hatred.
HM, Last Stand, Days of Future Past, and Apocalypse. DID YOU JUST PUT dofp In that category. Yikes, this is the same Dofp that killed the so called first serious mature mcu movie weeks later. Poor winter soldier, got screwed by DOFP on how to tell a real deep story in comics. No I just described all the mcu movies ask john landis.

there is a reason why apocalypse no one gave it a pass when it was coming after something as compelling and as dramatic as dofp that reminded may critics of TDK and the great days of X2. DOFP is not avengers 1 and 2 where avengers 2 still got a pass because it was as indispensable as avengers 1 and no one cared or had to think deep like they do in xmen movies..9 years, MCU cannot even make a film like DOFP, they see it as too deep, too dark and Adult friendly , well that is not my problem as a fan of xmen.

[Jokerz79]

Fox gets the characters better? It does good but it also does bad just like the MCU. Quicksilver looks cooler in the Fox films thanks to his CGI set pieces but Disney/Marvel got the character better in one outing.

First off his name was Pietro not Peter and he was from Eastern Europe with a Twin sister and was shown to have a close protective relationship with her. He was a bit of an ass which Quicksilver can be but essentially a good guy. Also AoU for all it's faults gave the Maximoffs a great origin with them trapped for days and with each shift of debris in the effort to save them making them fear the Stark bomb would go off and kill them.

The Fox films have their issues but they always have a lot of merits same with the MCU films and these pointless pissing contest mean nothing because neither franchise are disappearing anytime soon which is good for me because I love both.

[Jokerz79]

The Deadpool 2 trailer is reason enough why Dis-Marvel shouldn't get the rights back.

As is Noah Hawley working on a Doom movie.

The MCU has some pretty great directors and Honestly the tone of Deadpool feels more MCU than Fox IMO.

[uebersoldat]

Regardless if you like MCU or not it'd be alot better for the majority.

Video Games, Animation, Merch etc etc

Brother...YES!!!! You said it. I just want the X-Men under the Marvel umbrella for these reasons alone. I don't even care if we don't get movies for 10 more years. Just get the X-Men back at the prestige they deserve!

[uebersoldat]

Also I haven't even read this thread but I guarantee you it's now owned by pro-Fox, anti-MCU Jaddor. Good luck!