Iceman #3 (spoilers/discussion)

[Fokken]

Stop fem-bashing poor Bobby. Let him be his little gay self.

[NewMutant]

Stop fem-bashing poor Bobby. Let him be his little gay self.

Listen to Daddy.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Its inevitably bound to happen at some point. No character is safe from being written poorly. <shrug>

I understand and empathize, I DO, but the concern about voice-accuracy is something that's applicable to ANY character with a distinct voice/personality under an author that doesn't get it.

Laura Kinney. Rogue. Cyclops. Emma Frost. Storm. This is a regular hazard of being a fictional character that is made accessible to an increasingly diverse array of authors of varying talent/skill.

So we've come to simply not giving a **** about quality anymore?

I'm torn. I want an Iceman series that is up there with Fraction's Iron Man, Brubaker's Captain America, Hama or Aaron's Wolverine. However, Iceman is a different type of character and he certainly isn't going to get that lengthy of a run.

Iceman's solo needed to accomplish a few things. What was missing from the first volume was interactions of past characters Iceman has a history with. We need to see how these relationships are unchanged after he came out and remind us why we love Iceman to begin with. The second volume is doing a better job of that, but since it is a mini feels too condensed and a bit rushed.

Iceman has a weird place in X-Men history. He is an original X-Man but aside from that team he hasn't really been on a flagship book, he was barely ever used during Claremont's run. At the same time his power set made him popular outside the source material appearing in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, the movies, cartoons, and countless video games.

Since the Morrison era, Iceman has consistently been with X-Men and slowly building to a more integral role in the series. Wolverine and the X-Men was a big step for him, he was basically second in command in Extraordinary, and hopefully Uncanny will put the spotlight on him again.

I don't think Iceman has been written out of character at all, I think his role as prominent gay character will only help in at Marvel, and I think this series is something I would have benefited from as kid. Everything else is nitpicking. Yes, I can think of ways it could have been better. Sure I would have written things differently. But I'm not the writer, I'm realistic about how Marvel will treat this, and I think the book accomplishes a lot.

The quality just isn't there like it used to be. It could be so much better than it is...the stories, the art, the problems addressed in the book, but it's just so vapid. It's like watching an Insta-story of Iceman's life.

Not everyone needs a 1:1 to identify with a character.

[NewMutant]

So we've come to simply not giving a **** about quality anymore?



The quality just isn't there like it used to be. It could be so much better than it is...the stories, the art, the problems addressed in the book, but it's just so vapid. It's like watching an Insta-story of Iceman's life.

Not everyone needs a 1:1 to identify with a character.

Quality of art will always be subjective.

Comparing to an Insta-story only makes the story seems more relevant to the world we live (no matter if that's good or bad). We are a tech heavy world. I didn't like in Spider-Man: Homecoming how everything about powers seems to all be tech, but its a sign of the times. I agree this second volume seems more crammed and rushed but I think that Sina was trying to get as much in as possible given its a limited series. And it does seem like he is paying attention to what a lot of fans wanted which was appearances from Emma, Amazing Friends, etc.

Identifying and representation are two different things. I grew up in a pre Will & Grace world and as an X-Fan had no problem identifying with characters of any religion, race, gender, sexuality, age, etc. Representation still matters and how these characters are treated. Most gay characters are limbo'd, desexualized, or shown to be more hetero-normative. Sina is a writer who actually acknowledges gay culture; even still Iceman seems to fall into the more heteronormative side of.

[Rosebunse]

I just want all the original X-Men in a room together and for it to slowly dawn on everyone that Bobby is the most well adjusted of all of them.

[Havok83]

I just want all the original X-Men in a room together and for it to slowly dawn on everyone that Bobby is the most well adjusted of all of them.

Already happened



Scott's dead but Bobby being relatively normal compared to the rest has been acknowledged

[Anduinel]

I just want all the original X-Men in a room together and for it to slowly dawn on everyone that Bobby is the most well adjusted of all of them.

Didn't that happen in the annual with X?

[Rosebunse]

Meh, I need Scott there or it doesn't work for me.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Quality of art will always be subjective.

Comparing to an Insta-story only makes the story seems more relevant to the world we live (no matter if that's good or bad). We are a tech heavy world. I didn't like in Spider-Man: Homecoming how everything about powers seems to all be tech, but its a sign of the times. I agree this second volume seems more crammed and rushed but I think that Sina was trying to get as much in as possible given its a limited series. And it does seem like he is paying attention to what a lot of fans wanted which was appearances from Emma, Amazing Friends, etc.

Identifying and representation are two different things. I grew up in a pre Will & Grace world and as an X-Fan had no problem identifying with characters of any religion, race, gender, sexuality, age, etc. Representation still matters and how these characters are treated. Most gay characters are limbo'd, desexualized, or shown to be more hetero-normative. Sina is a writer who actually acknowledges gay culture; even still Iceman seems to fall into the more heteronormative side of.

Sina uses the things that straight people can identify as gay culture. He could easily mirror elements like Stonewall or Matt Shepard to show how close the metaphor of mutants is for the gay community, but this is just vapid and dialed in.

Meh, I need Scott there or it doesn't work for me.

Neither does Jean's hair...it is NEVER that flat and boring.

[Fokken]

Sina uses the things that straight people can identify as gay culture. He could easily mirror elements like Stonewall or Matt Shepard to show how close the metaphor of mutants is for the gay community, but this is just vapid and dialed in.

Sincerely, perhaps you ought to save your money, and in doing so, save yourself some grief since the series (and from what I gather, the X-books as a whole) seem to only cause you.... annoyance? Self Care, baby doll. Self Care!
There is no sense in nonsense if the heat is hot.

Neither does Jean's hair...it is NEVER that flat and boring.

Bwahahaha truly!! IF this be her TRUE hair, we now have proof Jean's got a legit ego and TK's her hair to achieve that voluminous mane ha ha ha ha
I would DIE if this were a thing, and Emma brought it up casually when discussing fraud or deception or whatever. "Its a farce, darling, a RUSE. Just like Jean's telekinetically ehanced clown hair."
I would die, die, die.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Bwahahaha truly!! IF this be her TRUE hair, we now have proof Jean's got a legit ego and TK's her hair to achieve that voluminous mane ha ha ha ha
I would DIE if this were a thing, and Emma brought it up casually when discussing fraud or deception or whatever. "Its a farce, darling, a RUSE. Just like Jean's telekinetically ehanced clown hair."
I would die, die, die.

"Truth is she misses the Phoenix...not for the power, but the constant blow out effect it had on her hair"

[Fokken]

"Truth is she misses the Phoenix...not for the power, but the constant blow out effect it had on her hair"

YUS YUS YUS!! ha ha ha ha

[CellarDweller]

Just some overall musings of my own, to add gas to the flame I guess.

Ha Ha! You said "Flame".



Sorry, I couldn't resist.

*goes back to reading thread*

[CellarDweller]

Neither does Jean's hair...it is NEVER that flat and boring.

[Strong Girl Daken]

I like that Iceman delivers slice of life stories. I'd be fine without the Sinister subplot reminding us that this is a superhero comic. I'm happy just reading Bobby hanging out with friends, dating, getting into shenanigans with Emma.

The reaction here makes it seem like Bobby talks like Alyssa Edwards. I barely even noticed the "fem-speak" that some people here are apparently hating.