Conan: Returning to Marvel

[Daniel22]

This was my first read of anything with Conan in it as I’ve never really followed him, but I gave it a go.

It’s...okay. It was good for what it was but there really wasn’t much there that blew me away. I’m unsure if I’ll want to pick up #2.

I was wondering how this would go for people who aren't already Conan fans. I thought it would be a tough sell. We don't see a lot of popular fiction of this kind anymore. There's sword and sorcery, but usually more lighthearted and LOTR-ish. I can't think of many solitary, grim, non-hero barbarian kinds of characters. The lack of much of a large, recurring supporting cast is starkly different than things like Game of Thrones or LOTR or Vikings or most somewhat-similar properties.

I wonder how much I would like Conan if I discovered him today. I love him but I grew up reading the novels and short stories. I seriously doubt I'd give him a second look if my first exposure came as an adult.

[JKtheMac]

I was wondering how this would go for people who aren't already Conan fans. I thought it would be a tough sell. We don't see a lot of popular fiction of this kind anymore. There's sword and sorcery, but usually more lighthearted and LOTR-ish. I can't think of many solitary, grim, non-hero barbarian kinds of characters. The lack of much of a large, recurring supporting cast is starkly different than things like Game of Thrones or LOTR or Vikings or most somewhat-similar properties.

I wonder how much I would like Conan if I discovered him today. I love him but I grew up reading the novels and short stories. I seriously doubt I'd give him a second look if my first exposure came as an adult.

As someone exposed as an adult (if you don’t count the movies) I would agree. It makes me wonder just how popular pulp era novels are in the US these days. Surely kids are not reading this stuff anymore.

[Knockagh]

I would have thought with Game of Thrones sword and sorcery had a captive audience. I know they aren’t exactly the same but the appetite for fantasy is definitely there. When I was a kid fantasy was everywhere, we had Ian Livinstones fighting fantasy books which I devoured, then the early Gemmel books and the worlds of Warhammer which were making their way into fiction. I found Conan first through Marvel and only read original Conan stuff much later as an adult. I’ve never enjoyed the Conan films.
I think if Marvel play this right they could do very well from Conan and help push fantasy out there some more.

[JKtheMac]

I would have thought with Game of Thrones sword and sorcery had a captive audience. I know they aren’t exactly the same but the appetite for fantasy is definitely there. When I was a kid fantasy was everywhere, we had Ian Livinstones fighting fantasy books which I devoured, then the early Gemmel books and the worlds of Warhammer which were making their way into fiction. I found Conan first through Marvel and only read original Conan stuff much later as an adult. I’ve never enjoyed the Conan films.
I think if Marvel play this right they could do very well from Conan and help push fantasy out there some more.

Given how the early stories are usually cited as examples of the so called 'Iconic Hero' genre, where the hero never changes (supposedly) and modern TV is all about character arcs seeking to evoke visceral, empathetic reactions in the audience, the only way to make Conan work in that context is to have him shaped by events. Before we knew it, we would be in the middle of a 'Not My Conan' argument.

Indeed I am bracing for this reaction from comic readers. Judging by his writing, Aaron probably has just as little faith in unchanging iconic heroes as TV writers. (Or indeed as little faith in them as I do.)

[comicscollector]

So a few thoughts about Conan the Barbarian by Jason Aaron and Mahmud Asrar.
First the new stories of Conan are in good hands,just the first issue had a action packed story of Conan (As it should be) but without losing that tone of Conan stories being stories told of certain periods of time of Conan.
For people that have not read Conan stories before it easy to confine the stories to being just fantasy stories of a Barbarian but Conan narrative goes from Conan being a Barbarian to a Conan being a King so it´s not dificult to say that this by itself provide a variety to Conan stories that is quite interesting.
But as much as i liked fantasy stories when i was a kid (From Lord of the Rings to the Fighting Fantasy adventure books from Ian Livingstone) i did not read that many Conan stories back then (Outside of a few Conan comic books here and there) ,so i had not a pre concieved opinion of how a Conan story should be.
And besides buying Conan #1 (Or 276) i got as well the first Conan Marvel Comic Book by Roy Thomas and Barry Smith,so after reading the most recent Conan story i went to read the first Conan story by Marvel and to me the Aaron story did not looked different from the narrative of the classic Conan story.
So it´s cool that Swords and Sorcery comic books are being published by Marvel,and after the first issue i will be having Conan the Barbarian in my pull list.And i am quite intrigued about the new Savage Sword of Conan as well.

[nnelg]

I never thought I'd say this but I will be purchasing this series. Mainly because the novella is being published in the book. But if Aaron makes a bunch of ridiculous changes to Conan like he did to Thor and the rest of the Asgardians then I will stop buying it and wait on the novella to be published as a novella.

[Knockagh]

Are savage sword and belit coming out this month too?

[comicscollector]

Are savage sword and belit coming out this month too?

No.The new Savage Sword of Conan is coming out in February and Belit is coming out in March.

[Daniel22]

As someone exposed as an adult (if you don’t count the movies) I would agree. It makes me wonder just how popular pulp era novels are in the US these days. Surely kids are not reading this stuff anymore.

In my experience, kids do not read pulp heroes. I think every single sub we have to current pulp series is middle aged. That's obviously a tiny sample (Shadow for example has five regular subs) so it's not worth anything in the grand scheme but that's my experience as a retailer. I don't know how many young people are reading the old novels. My guess would be very few. Conan is the opposite of what I see kids gravitate towards today.

[Daniel22]

I would have thought with Game of Thrones sword and sorcery had a captive audience. I know they aren’t exactly the same but the appetite for fantasy is definitely there. When I was a kid fantasy was everywhere, we had Ian Livinstones fighting fantasy books which I devoured, then the early Gemmel books and the worlds of Warhammer which were making their way into fiction. I found Conan first through Marvel and only read original Conan stuff much later as an adult. I’ve never enjoyed the Conan films.
I think if Marvel play this right they could do very well from Conan and help push fantasy out there some more.

JK summed up my thoughts pretty closely on this. The classic Conan is a rock in a river. Things happen around him but he remains basically unchanged. Conan is Conan is Conan. He does get older, becomes a king, marries and has a kid later in life, but he is still the same man. He leaves his kingdom for one last adventure that is much like all his other adventures. Every story is like one episode of a formula TV show that has little to no overarching storyline or character progression. Game of Thrones and other popular sword and sorcery/fantasy properties are about long, character defining and changing arcs. There's progression, huge supporting casts and the character is very different by the end of the story.

If Marvel adds or changes too much, I agree we will have the "Not my Conan" stuff pop up. I don't see this being a huge success for Marvel because, more so than their other properties, they are stuck between catering to an old, small, dwindling audience or changing and adapting in the pursuit of new readers which will turn off the old audience. That dynamic is there in most of their properties but it's even more extreme in Conan's case.

[Ptrvc]

JK summed up my thoughts pretty closely on this. The classic Conan is a rock in a river. Things happen around him but he remains basically unchanged. Conan is Conan is Conan. He does get older, becomes a king, marries and has a kid later in life, but he is still the same man. He leaves his kingdom for one last adventure that is much like all his other adventures. Every story is like one episode of a formula TV show that has little to no overarching storyline or character progression. Game of Thrones and other popular sword and sorcery/fantasy properties are about long, character defining and changing arcs. There's progression, huge supporting casts and the character is very different by the end of the story.

If Marvel adds or changes too much, I agree we will have the "Not my Conan" stuff pop up. I don't see this being a huge success for Marvel because, more so than their other properties, they are stuck between catering to an old, small, dwindling audience or changing and adapting in the pursuit of new readers which will turn off the old audience. That dynamic is there in most of their properties but it's even more extreme in Conan's case.

I gotta disagree. Conan does change over time. It's subtle, and slow, and there is no moment of sudden reversal if beliefs or ideals or anything like that.

But compare Conan in Tower of the Elephant to The Hour of the Dragon. The first story is early in his adventures when he's pretty much just a thief, and the latter is when he's a king.

There's a definite sense of obligation and responsibility that Conan learns over time, as he spends more and more time as a leader as opposed to a simple warrior.

Other characters that have known him awhile even reference this, where in the past he'd toss himself into danger and trust skill and the to see him through, he becomes much more cautious when it comes to risking lives of men and subjects.

[MRP]

In my experience, kids do not read pulp heroes. I think every single sub we have to current pulp series is middle aged. That's obviously a tiny sample (Shadow for example has five regular subs) so it's not worth anything in the grand scheme but that's my experience as a retailer. I don't know how many young people are reading the old novels. My guess would be very few. Conan is the opposite of what I see kids gravitate towards today.

How many kids are reading periodical comics featuring super-heroes or at periodical comics at all? Comics featuring complete stories in one volume sold as a book (like Dog Boy or some of the Scholastic GN for example) sell very well to kids, but how many are actually buying periodical comics no matter what content is featured in them? The periodical format itself is the opposite of what kids gravitate towards today regardless of what characters are featured in them.

-M

[Daniel22]

I gotta disagree. Conan does change over time. It's subtle, and slow, and there is no moment of sudden reversal if beliefs or ideals or anything like that.

But compare Conan in Tower of the Elephant to The Hour of the Dragon. The first story is early in his adventures when he's pretty much just a thief, and the latter is when he's a king.

There's a definite sense of obligation and responsibility that Conan learns over time, as he spends more and more time as a leader as opposed to a simple warrior.

Other characters that have known him awhile even reference this, where in the past he'd toss himself into danger and trust skill and the to see him through, he becomes much more cautious when it comes to risking lives of men and subjects.

The change is there, for sure. I don't think it's close to what we see in popular fiction today, though. Conan begrudgingly learns things about responsibility and family, but doesn't hesitate to go back to adventuring either. I think his surroundings and jobs change a lot more than he does. He applies much of his original outlook, just modified slightly. I always felt like King Conan was just Thief or Soldier Conan, he just had a crown and maybe some more patience and restraint. I don't think modern audiences would be patient enough to wait most of a lifetime for a modicum of development. To go back to my rock in a river comparison, the rock does erode over time, but it's pretty much the same and it takes a long time to change.

It's also tough to have a general conversation about Conan without specifying which versions we're "counting". If it's just Howard, or Howard plus Sprague/DeCarter/etc, or the Tor books, the movies, the comics, all of it... Depending on what we're counting I could see the question of change leaning much more in one direction or the other.

[Daniel22]

How many kids are reading periodical comics featuring super-heroes or at periodical comics at all? Comics featuring complete stories in one volume sold as a book (like Dog Boy or some of the Scholastic GN for example) sell very well to kids, but how many are actually buying periodical comics no matter what content is featured in them? The periodical format itself is the opposite of what kids gravitate towards today regardless of what characters are featured in them.

-M

In my experience, hardly any kids read periodical comics. If we're only counting recurring, month after month purchases, that number is even smaller. It's probably three percent of our total floppy sales. You couldn't be more right with your last sentence. Trying to sell a nine year old on the concept of "Here's issue #811, come back in a month for the next issue, and the story will wrap up four months after that, and it's four bucks an issue" is almost comically difficult. It works sometimes but that whole model is ridiculous to most kids who have every issue of everything ever already in their pocket on their phone. That's not even getting into the idea that paying for most entertainment is a foreign idea to them.

[Colt Cape]

As someone exposed as an adult (if you don’t count the movies) I would agree. It makes me wonder just how popular pulp era novels are in the US these days. Surely kids are not reading this stuff anymore.

I don’t know if I count as a kid (17), but I love pulp fiction.