Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley) Appreciation (2019)

[Phoenixx9]

Hmm, that could work. Maybe the Red Room wanted to see if Spider-Man's abilities could be replicated in their Black Widow agents, or even to restart the Wolf Spider initiative.

Good connection. This reminded me of the first time we see the "new Swingin'70's" Natasha, in her now-classic black jumpsuit. She was testing herself against Spider-Man to see how her abilities stacked up to his. Maybe that was a pre-programming of the Red Room, because it seemed out of place, even way back then?

[Huntsman Spider]

Good connection. This reminded me of the first time we see the "new Swingin'70's" Natasha, in her now-classic black jumpsuit. She was testing herself against Spider-Man to see how her abilities stacked up to his. Maybe that was a pre-programming of the Red Room, because it seemed out of place, even way back then?

She deliberately created her wrist-mounted devices in emulation of his web-shooters, if I recall. Speaking of Black Widow and Spider-Man interacting, I'm still stuck on that Marvel Team-Up story arc where she temporarily lost herself in her undercover persona of Nancy Rushman and Nancy fell in love with Spider-Man. Of course, Black Widow quickly rebuffed him once she was back to herself, though admitted to herself that she did want to be with him on some level. While that's fizzled out since, I could see Spidey in the same category as Hawkeye/Clint Barton, someone that she might deeply care for, but ultimately thinks "deserves better" than to be entangled in everything her life entails.

[Master Planner]

I always loved the business approach of Kingslay's Hobgoblin over convulted schemes and childhood escapism of Osborn's Green Goblin. Take the famous blackmail plot. Osborn had dirt for many of his friends in the business world,yet he didn't utilise them,even at the beginning of his Green Goblin career(before the obsession with Spider-Man) Kingslay on the other,takes full adventage of the info in Osborn journals and start to build a plot to exploit the business elit of the city. Pure business.

Beside Dr Octopus, i loved what Slott did in his run with Kingslay. Making Hobgoblin a financer of b-list villains and taking a share it's a nice way to give the character a fresh start,while respecting the elements of his established history.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I always loved the business approach of Kingslay's Hobgoblin over convulted schemes and childhood escapism of Osborn's Green Goblin. Take the famous blackmail plot. Osborn had dirt for many of his friends in the business world,yet he didn't utilise them,even at the beginning of his Green Goblin career(before the obsession with Spider-Man) Kingslay on the other,takes full adventage of the info in Osborn journals and start to build a plot to exploit the business elit of the city. Pure business.

Beside Dr Octopus, i loved what Slott did in his run with Kingslay. Making Hobgoblin a financer of b-list villains and taking a share it's a nice way to give the character a fresh start,while respecting the elements of his established history.

The problem with a businessman approach to supervillainy is that it makes the character's fixation and opposition to the hero kind of impersonal and it strains suspension of disbelief even more than the usual Silver Age attitude to villainy.

It works for the Kingpin and Frank Miller's Daredevil made Kingpin an influential villain of the '80s. But it becomes a problem when that becomes default for others. It's a problem with the Businessman Lex Luthor because he's a character with an irrational obsessive hatred for Superman and yet him being behind a desk makes that conflict impersonal. In the DCAU cartoons, Luthor didn't become cool and interesting until they ditched the businessman part and had him become the Silver Age throwback Mad Scientist villain he was.

In the case of Kingsley, he's so pragmatic as a businessman that him being a Goblin, dude who flies around on a glider and drops bombs and so on, kind of unbelievable. And again if he's so pragmatic, why is he following on and picking the scraps of a crazy person like Norman. How does he decide which parts of Norman's legacy is his sane side and which is his crazy side? And what is the end-game there? And if Kingsley is already rich before he converts to becoming a goblin and a famous fashion designer as well...why did he become a criminal? He's already wealthy and has a legit career.

[Master Planner]

In the case of Kingsley, he's so pragmatic as a businessman that him being a Goblin, dude who flies around on a glider and drops bombs and so on, kind of unbelievable. And again if he's so pragmatic, why is he following on and picking the scraps of a crazy person like Norman. How does he decide which parts of Norman's legacy is his sane side and which is his crazy side? And what is the end-game there? And if Kingsley is already rich before he converts to becoming a goblin and a famous fashion designer as well...why did he become a criminal? He's already wealthy and has a legit career.

A mix of curiosity, potentials and thrill. Curiosity to exploit the secrets of one of the most famous industialists and super-villain in NY, potentials in using those weapons and secrets for profit and thrill for creating a super-villain persona for a thrill seek. For Kingsley, Hobgoblin ID is a sport,a *ahem* hobby to use a spoiled, rich man. While he enjoys the masked criminal career more than he could admit, he is not addicted with it as Norman or Harry in their goblin days. Norman, a man with childish fantasies and rage inside him, saw the Green Goblin as a vehicle for unleashing that rage into the world and escaping the boring life of a businessman for a more silly,yet thrilled activity. That's why he was more predatory in his Stan Lee days and less of a backroom manipulator.Norman wants to ruin you and pummel you to death with his own hands. Kingsley rarely would get his hands dirty. Both men are addicted to the Goblin theatrics,but for Roderick is like smoking weed to relax. For Norman,is his cocaine and became so addicted,that you can't separate Norman from Goblin. That's why it was more easy for Roderick to retire in many cases. He is addicted to power,but not in a suicidal way like Norman.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

A mix of curiosity, potentials and thrill.

Those aren't rational motivations.

Curiosity to exploit the secrets of one of the most famous industialists and super-villain in NY,

Norman being Green Goblin wasn't widely known at the time. And he was only exposed publicly in The Pulse #1-6. Kingsley was interested in Goblin first and then he found out he was Norman.

While he enjoys the masked criminal career more than he could admit, he is not addicted with it as Norman or Harry in their goblin days. Norman, a man with childish fantasies and rage inside him, saw the Green Goblin as a vehicle for unleashing that rage into the world and escaping the boring life of a businessman for a more silly,yet thrilled activity. That's why he was more predatory in his Stan Lee days and less of a backroom manipulator.Norman wants to ruin you and pummel you to death with his own hands. Kingsley rarely would get his hands dirty. Both men are addicted to the Goblin theatrics,but for Roderick is like smoking weed to relax. For Norman,is his cocaine and became so addicted,that you can't separate Norman from Goblin. That's why it was more easy for Roderick to retire in many cases. He is addicted to power,but not in a suicidal way like Norman.

At the end of the day, Norman is the more successful businessman, and more dangerous supervillain, and he had real power beyond Kingsley can ever hope for. Maybe there's a story there about little our society in both criminal and civilian endeavors, rewards pragmatic and rational common sense.

And if Kingsley is someone who can walk away from being Hobgoblin. Then he isn't the Hobgoblin anymore. He's not a Goblin anymore. He's just another behind-the-scenes crimelord businessman in the mold of Kingpin, but not as powerful and dangerous as Kingpin.

[Snoop Dogg]

Roderick's ability to walk away from being the Hobgoblin and take over the supervillian licensing industry from Justin Hammer is what makes Roderick Kingsley a worthwhile character. He's not Norman 2, he does not seek or pretend to be the most lè epic Goblin ever and possessive of his identity, he is his own thing, and the theme of the Hobgoblin as the 80's Spider-Office tried to ruin the concept eventually became that anyone can wear the mask (hey!). It gives him his own niche and gives him more flexibility to appear in other people's books.

If he can't still be a criminal because he's already rich, then the concept of white collar crime shouldn't exist. He's a greedy hedonist backed by super drugs. He only occasionally uses the power and identity he found to enforce his own goals, which is why he usually delegates. If he never does it at all when he can or should, then that's lame. Norman is the more dangerous and better villain to Spider-Man, but Roderick being different is good for enemy variety instead of being someone's sloppy seconds. And his approach has consistently put him in better positions in life than Norman.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And his approach has consistently put him in better positions in life than Norman.

Norman Osborn was head of HAMMER and Thunderbolts, and had more power and stature than Kingsley ever accumulated. While Kingsley's original company was shut down by a revived Goblin.

So that's not true.

[A Maze Thing]

There was a period after ASM 200 that I felt ASM had become pretty dull until Roger Stern became the writer. And the Hobgoblin-mystery certainly helped make the book interesting again. In those days I liked Hobgoblin more than Green Goblin. Stern just seemed to write him as a smarter, more manipulating version. But after Stern left it just seemed other writers struggled with the character and didn't really know what to do with him. And then Norman Osborn was brought back and it felt Marvel started to treat ol' Hobby even more as a second-rate character.

[Winterboy]

We need a Spider-Man Epic Collection with Hobgoblin.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

We need a Spider-Man Epic Collection with Hobgoblin.

There's a Roger Stern Omnibus that has all the best Hobgoblin stories.

[Spidey5640]

Issue 238 is what got me back into comic after a few years hiatus. Totally absorbed in the Hobgoblin mystery, though ultimately disappointed in the reveal. He was a definite A-lister back then but now seems more of a running joke. Kingsley franchising super-villain personas? Ben Urich's nephew with his bad-ass Goblin Laugh? Hobgoblin deserves better...

[Winterboy]

There's a Roger Stern Omnibus that has all the best Hobgoblin stories.

Thanks, my friend.

[Spidey5640]

She deliberately created her wrist-mounted devices in emulation of his web-shooters, if I recall. Speaking of Black Widow and Spider-Man interacting, I'm still stuck on that Marvel Team-Up story arc where she temporarily lost herself in her undercover persona of Nancy Rushman and Nancy fell in love with Spider-Man. Of course, Black Widow quickly rebuffed him once she was back to herself, though admitted to herself that she did want to be with him on some level. While that's fizzled out since, I could see Spidey in the same category as Hawkeye/Clint Barton, someone that she might deeply care for, but ultimately thinks "deserves better" than to be entangled in everything her life entails.

My all time fav Marvel Team-up arc. Claremont nailed it.

[Chubistian]

I just bought this volume which has ASM 224 to 251 and Annuals 16 & 17, so I’m finally going to experience the original Hobgoblin (and Stern’s run). As a kid, I didn’t know there were different Hobgoblins, and later on I discovered I had been exposed to Macendale more than to Kingsley. I’m pretty hyped for this reading. I’m also buying some Slott’s issues from time to time, and I like what I see about Roderick, though using others to impersonate him is becoming a cliche to make fun of
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