Victor Creed: Sabretooth Appreciation 2019

[Silver Fang]

To be honest Creed should be already strong enough to take on a Wendigo between his superstrength and his adamantium but yeah it's like most writers forget about this nowadays. You know that's what I thought, no seeing Birdy and his father during this last Weapon X arc was disappointing. Also him seeing his mother again could be interesting, lot of untapped potential especially after the reveal Aaron did during his Wolverine's run.

Marvel has forgotten Creed has super strength. lol

I look at the current stats. Creed's strength is least as a 3 Peak Human.

Meanwhile, Wolverine & Deadpool have class 4 Superhuman Strength.

His intelligence is also a 2, which is average given how many characters have it. But I would think it would at least be a 3.

One note villain is easier to write I guess, but yeah using Tieri's version would have been perfect. Also doesn't help that Sabretooth characterization in the movies or tv shows were far from perfect.

I mentioned that some pages ago. And I agree. Imo, NONE of Sabretooth's tv appearances have been good. I guess that tells you how seriously he's taken all around. Almost nobody who works on comic-related media seems to take Sabretooth as a serious villain. He's always more of an annoyance.

Maybe that was during that Sabretooth/Mystique mini during the 90s or when he was with X-Factor? I'm not sure.

Yeah. Darn I wish I had paid attention. I remember someone had asked about it on reddit. Saying that Mystique shot him just one issue ago, but he was back taking orders from her like nothing happened. And to them, that didn't seem like something Creed would do.

Then again, Deadpool's memory is treated as wacky due to all the times he's been shot in the head / killed. I suppose Creed forgot Mystique shot him. lol

Just have to make your own theories around writers' screw-ups. Like Gillien's Sabretooth. With the bad retcons, inaccurate history, and blatant contradictions. I tend to pronounce everything he wrote in Origins as non-canon.

1. Never has Creed been hinted to have siblings.
2. In the 90's, his 1st kill was his pediatrician. Not his brother over a pie.
3. Silver Fox was a memory implant. Yet we get that story again.
4. Creed loved his mother & only killed his father. Not both parents like Gillien wrote.
5. And he can't even keep his retcons straight. In Origins, Creed had a brother, Luther. Then in Origins II, he had Saul & Clara. Where were they during the first Origins? Lol and why does Clara scold Creed for killing their parents, but snot the other brother they had?

Lets not even get into the fact he made Sabretooth's Origin story all about WOLVERINE. That's another reason Creed is seen as a joke these days. Writers don't know what to do with him, if he's not Wolverine's accessory.

THE JOKER is getting his own film this year, and Batman doesn't seem to be a part of it. Says something about his popularity. Even the Joker is seen as his own character who can carry a story without Batman glued to him.

Where's Sabretooth's movie? Heck, we can't even get a good movie depiction for small roles. lol

That says it all there. Sabretooth isn't very popular, nor a high-level villain. And it shows given how little devotion he gets.

Mystique got a big boost thanks to the movies but yeah it really did Creed no favor that's for sure.

Yep. May as well leave Creed out of it, and hook Mystique up with Wolverine and have them beat on Sabretooth as a couple. As the 2 movie starlets.

Damn poor Vic, that's tough lol. Maybe you can add this gem from Wolverine First Class 9:

Even as a Wolverine's fan that was so dumb and painful to look at.

I will surely add it. This has almost become fun really. lol

True about Omega Red but honestly after what Creed did to both him and Lady Deathstrike during the Logan Files story, no way they would have agree to work with him again lol.

Yep. That came up some pages back too. Those 3 have no business being partners again after Creed played them both for fools. Omega Red got his revenge when he sent Agent Zero after him, which almost got him killed. But yeah, their "friendship" really made no sense. Especially Omega Red saying it's Creed who only ever treated him like a person & made him see he could be more than a monster. HA!!!! That bromance is a tad too late with two big a bridge burned. lol

No problem lol, I will give it a try, because I missed a well written Sabretooth. Rosenberg is hit and miss so who knows maybe it's going to be fun, at least I hope so. If he has ulterior motives beyond helping Malekith that could be interesting.

Long as the motive isn't Mystique or Wolverine. lol Honestly, I have gotten bored with Creed's relationship to both of them. Writers have just made them as bland & one-note as possible, and it's hard to really care. Neither relationship has substance, imo. Mystique was at her best with Destiny. And Creed was better with....well everyone who isn't her. lol

A shame, they should have let them stay in the main universe I could have seen them joined Cyclops and Wolverine team.

Honestly, long as Rosenberg is writing, I don't want him to touch Monet.

Now this is only hearsay. But I was told by a fan who asked about Monet on Rosenberg's twitter. Rosenberg apparently said he doesn't like Monet much. If that is true, in combination with his sketchy depiction of Sabretooth, I'd rather he didn't touch either of them. lol But maybe i'll be wrong & he'll do a good villain Creed. If he does, then I gladly retract my complaints & admit I underestimated him.

Yeah that was Killable during the Cornell's run, I get that Creed wanted to break Logan but honestly the way it was done during the Tieri's run was much more impactful and true Sabretooth big plan was so dumb and the final fight with Wolverine was just bad. Want to know something funny? That issue with Creed defeating the powerless Wolverine was supposed to be a big fight and that was the reason Alan Davis (the artist at the time) stayed on the series and in the end it was just Sabretooth trying to talk Wolverine to death which really annoyed Davis.

Interesting trivia. I love stuff like that. And I don't blame Davis for being annoyed. And honestly, Sabretooth giving speeches to Logan was played out before that. Again, he's played better mind-games by Tierri & the 90's.

Another issue with the X-Office rehashing stories over & over, and not giving them anywhere near the passion & bite they had the first time around.

That cheeseburger quote and him sending emojis for Logan's birthday were dumb, it's like the inversion also affected Sabretooth's brain in the worst way possible lol. I agree that ass kicking by Cho was annoying.

I can't even say it's the inversion since Brisson, Duggan, and Bunn didn't give Sabretooth airhead millennial treatment. Similar to what Simone has done to Domino. Like some writers wanna age down the characters to try & prove they're "hip" and appeal to "kids."

Yeah it never make any sense, honestly none of the "Wolverines" should stand a chance again him, between his superstrength, his healing factor, his experience, his adamantium skeleton and fingernails, he could cut all of them in half if he wanted, not just ripping off half of their faces lol. No surprise about Deathstrike or Creed characterization after he became leader, the X-Office under Paniccia was a mess unfortunately.

Sadly. You even have some complaining about Remender's Daken & how he shouldn't be manipulated by Creed "of all people." Creed was the original Daken done right. Creed was playing mind-games before Daken even showed up. The same Creed who broke Xavier & outsmarted Sinister. But no surprise he gets no credit for the mind-screws he delivered in the 90's due to how stupid he's depicted now.

And I think the only reason Pak started writing him better is because he had Logan & Warpath taken from him. So he had to somewhat clean up Creed's characterization & bring him to the front now that he lost his other male characters. Logan & Warpath stayed taking the piss out of Creed and/ or showing him up.

Pak is currently doing a great job on Hulkverines, so who knows maybe he learned from his mistakes. I'm curious if Creed will appear during the Wolverine Exit Wound one shot, with both Claremont and Hama as writers that could be a good thing for Sabretooth!

Should've gotten a solo instead of this, hope what ever Claremont is doing with Creed and Logan sections off into a series for Sabretooth again.

It's possible, but I am still wary because even Claremont didn't always give Creed the beast of feats. Like his Exiles run where Psylocke hands Creed his ass on a platter & Creed got absolutely no shots in.

He says he wanted Sabretooth to be Wolverine's superior, but he never really got around to expanding on that. And now it's too late, because how would he justify all the times Wolverine has kicked Creed's ass recently. lol Without some Clone retcons.

And the cover has also soured me on it.

Sure Creed got to scratch Wolverine's lip. I guess it's better than nothing, but Wolverine is the one with his claws through Creed's face again.

So, again, I avoid until told otherwise. lol

[Maestro 216]

Agreed. So I can't help but roll my eyes at solicits trying to build up Sabretooth as a threat when he's been getting his ass kicked with minimal effort for 16 years. Lol

"Will Creed get his bloody revenge?"

Duh, of course not. Next. Lol

This is why I hate nostalgia in comics sometimes. Now because of the merger the editors think we all just want more rehashing of the 90's X-Men.

[Chubistian]

That cover with Sabretooth scratching Wolverine's lip is from a comission done by Ryan Stegman in 2016, so I'm still not sure if we will see Creed after all

[Mr Abductor]

@Silver Fang
I haven't been following Uncanny closely, but is there a reason as to why Logan and possibly Creed are back in their old outfits again?
Claremont probably requested lol

[comeatmebro]

editors think we all just want more rehashing of the 90's X-Men.

I wish, this would be a fantastic thing WhatIf_v1_087_00.jpg instead they just love Claremont, Morrison, Aaron and the animated series

[GigaBalls]

Marvel has forgotten Creed has super strength. lol

I look at the current stats. Creed's strength is least as a 3 Peak Human.

Meanwhile, Wolverine & Deadpool have class 4 Superhuman Strength.

His intelligence is also a 2, which is average given how many characters have it. But I would think it would at least be a 3.

That made me think of the Marvel Overpower Card game from back in the 90s. You had 4 main stats that determined what cards you could play. Only 3 Marvel Characters had an 8 fighting stat when I played and Sabretooth was one of them. I believe the 3 8 fighting stat characters were Sabretooth, Wolverine, Captain America.

untitled.jpg

thR2Y3AQDZ.jpg

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Those stats pretty closely matched all the X-Men trading cards stats too. Sabretooth had 6 strength. Matched other super strength characters like Beast, Spiderman and Dr. Doom. Captain America and Deadpool had 4 strength and Wolverine 5.

The game had different listing for what the power levels meant with 2 being basic human, 3 being peak human, and 4 enhanced human. With 5-8 representing the different super strength levels.

[Silver Fang]

Perez shares some WoR art.

Looks like I see fur. That's another strike. Lol On top of him appearing to be getting his ass kicked here.

[Valcrist]

And the cover has also soured me on it.

Sure Creed got to scratch Wolverine's lip. I guess it's better than nothing, but Wolverine is the one with his claws through Creed's face again.

So, again, I avoid until told otherwise. lol

For those of us out the loop (like me), what comic is that?

[Chubistian]

For those of us out the loop (like me), what comic is that?

It's the cover for Wolverine Exit Wounds, a one shot to be release in June, that counts with writing by Chris Claremont, Larry Hama and Sam Kieth, alongisde pencils by Salvador Larroca, Sam Kieth and more

https://www.newsarama.com/44313-clar...wolverine.html

[Valcrist]

It's the cover for Wolverine Exit Wounds, a one shot to be release in June, that counts with writing by Chris Claremont, Larry Hama and Sam Kieth, alongisde pencils by Salvador Larroca, Sam Kieth and more

https://www.newsarama.com/44313-clar...wolverine.html

Thanks, Ill have to check it out.

[Hush]

Marvel has forgotten Creed has super strength. lol

I look at the current stats. Creed's strength is least as a 3 Peak Human.

Meanwhile, Wolverine & Deadpool have class 4 Superhuman Strength.

His intelligence is also a 2, which is average given how many characters have it. But I would think it would at least be a 3.

Lmao at peak human, what a bunch of nonsense. Good Job Marvel!

I mentioned that some pages ago. And I agree. Imo, NONE of Sabretooth's tv appearances have been good. I guess that tells you how seriously he's taken all around. Almost nobody who works on comic-related media seems to take Sabretooth as a serious villain. He's always more of an annoyance.

With any luck, Feige will do justice to Creed in the MCU. The Russo borthers said they're big fan of Wolverine so with any luck Sabretooth will be portrayed correctly.

Yeah. Darn I wish I had paid attention. I remember someone had asked about it on reddit. Saying that Mystique shot him just one issue ago, but he was back taking orders from her like nothing happened. And to them, that didn't seem like something Creed would do.

I remember a scene during the Aaron's run where Mystique shot Wolverine in the face which made Sabretooth really happy lol.

Just have to make your own theories around writers' screw-ups. Like Gillien's Sabretooth. With the bad retcons, inaccurate history, and blatant contradictions. I tend to pronounce everything he wrote in Origins as non-canon.

1. Never has Creed been hinted to have siblings.
2. In the 90's, his 1st kill was his pediatrician. Not his brother over a pie.
3. Silver Fox was a memory implant. Yet we get that story again.
4. Creed loved his mother & only killed his father. Not both parents like Gillien wrote.
5. And he can't even keep his retcons straight. In Origins, Creed had a brother, Luther. Then in Origins II, he had Saul & Clara. Where were they during the first Origins? Lol and why does Clara scold Creed for killing their parents, but snot the other brother they had?

Lets not even get into the fact he made Sabretooth's Origin story all about WOLVERINE. That's another reason Creed is seen as a joke these days. Writers don't know what to do with him, if he's not Wolverine's accessory.

Yeah Gillen's stories about Sabretooth and Wolverine past were really subpar and in the end went nowhere. Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don't think it was needed to overexplain everything about Sabretooth's past just like Wolverine or even Magneto. A quick flashback was more than enough, let the imagination of the readers do the rest.

Making Sabretooth a side character in his own origin story was a terrible idea too.

THE JOKER is getting his own film this year, and Batman doesn't seem to be a part of it. Says something about his popularity. Even the Joker is seen as his own character who can carry a story without Batman glued to him.

Where's Sabretooth's movie? Heck, we can't even get a good movie depiction for small roles. lol

That says it all there. Sabretooth isn't very popular, nor a high-level villain. And it shows given how little devotion he gets.

That Joker movie looks interesting and yeah something similar with Creed could be fun. Who knows if the movie is successsful, maybe it could lead the way for more vilain solo movies but unfortunately as you said Creed is not high level vilain anymore so yeah the chances to see a good Sabretooth solo movie are really slim.

Yep. That came up some pages back too. Those 3 have no business being partners again after Creed played them both for fools. Omega Red got his revenge when he sent Agent Zero after him, which almost got him killed. But yeah, their "friendship" really made no sense. Especially Omega Red saying it's Creed who only ever treated him like a person & made him see he could be more than a monster. HA!!!! That bromance is a tad too late with two big a bridge burned. lol

Yeah this "bromance" doesn't make any sense, I'm sure the next time they meet they're going to try to kill each other lol.

Honestly, long as Rosenberg is writing, I don't want him to touch Monet.

Now this is only hearsay. But I was told by a fan who asked about Monet on Rosenberg's twitter. Rosenberg apparently said he doesn't like Monet much. If that is true, in combination with his sketchy depiction of Sabretooth, I'd rather he didn't touch either of them. lol But maybe i'll be wrong & he'll do a good villain Creed. If he does, then I gladly retract my complaints & admit I underestimated him.

I didn't know about that, that's disappointing. At least Hickman seems to be a fan of her so that's a good thing!

And I think the only reason Pak started writing him better is because he had Logan & Warpath taken from him. So he had to somewhat clean up Creed's characterization & bring him to the front now that he lost his other male characters. Logan & Warpath stayed taking the piss out of Creed and/ or showing him up.

Removing both of them did have a positive effect on Creed's characterization, not that much but still better than nothing lol.

It's possible, but I am still wary because even Claremont didn't always give Creed the beast of feats. Like his Exiles run where Psylocke hands Creed his ass on a platter & Creed got absolutely no shots in.

He says he wanted Sabretooth to be Wolverine's superior, but he never really got around to expanding on that. And now it's too late, because how would he justify all the times Wolverine has kicked Creed's ass recently. lol Without some Clone retcons.

So, again, I avoid until told otherwise. lol

I like Claremont and I like the Exiles but his run was terrible lol, such a letdown. Regarding their fights during the Claremont's run, he wanted to reveal that some of those fights wasn't with the real Sabretooth but some clones when the real one was used he was terryfying especially during Uncanny X-Men #212 & #213, Wolverine #10 or Classic X-Men #10. Same thing during Wolverine #126 he was really scary but yeah unfortunately he couldn't do more in the end.

The Claremont's story is set in the past just after the Kitty Pryde/Wolverine mini so if Sabretooth appears he won't have to deal with recent events lol.

That made me think of the Marvel Overpower Card game from back in the 90s. You had 4 main stats that determined what cards you could play. Only 3 Marvel Characters had an 8 fighting stat when I played and Sabretooth was one of them. I believe the 3 8 fighting stat characters were Sabretooth, Wolverine, Captain America.

untitled.jpg

thR2Y3AQDZ.jpg

th.jpg

Those stats pretty closely matched all the X-Men trading cards stats too. Sabretooth had 6 strength. Matched other super strength characters like Beast, Spiderman and Dr. Doom. Captain America and Deadpool had 4 strength and Wolverine 5.

The game had different listing for what the power levels meant with 2 being basic human, 3 being peak human, and 4 enhanced human. With 5-8 representing the different super strength levels.

Thanks for the info, that's really interesting and the stats on those cards makes much more sense!

[Hush]

Perez shares some WoR art.

Looks like I see fur. That's another strike. Lol On top of him appearing to be getting his ass kicked here.

The fur is back lol Your comment reminds me of this scene from Ultimate X-Men #12:



Poor Creed no matter the universe, the fur coat will always be his greatest foe

[Silver Fang]

Lmao at peak human, what a bunch of nonsense. Good Job Marvel!

And he's supposed to have superhuman speed as well I think. His stats list his speed as average. I miss when this was true.

With any luck, Feige will do justice to Creed in the MCU. The Russo brothers said they're big fan of Wolverine so with any luck Sabretooth will be portrayed correctly.

That worries me. Are they fans of Wolverine or fanboys? And in which case, is Creed gonna be done justice? Or will he just be brought in as the failure version of Wolverine?

But the movies have to take off first. Seems something recently happened that's gonna cause a delay in seeing anything in the MCU.

I remember a scene during the Aaron's run where Mystique shot Wolverine in the face which made Sabretooth really happy lol.

Horny is the better word. lol I did like Sabretooth's design there.

Yeah Gillen's stories about Sabretooth and Wolverine past were really subpar and in the end went nowhere. Maybe an unpopular opinion but I don't think it was needed to over-explain everything about Sabretooth's past just like Wolverine or even Magneto. A quick flashback was more than enough, let the imagination of the readers do the rest.

Making Sabretooth a side character in his own origin story was a terrible idea too.

Agreed. I tend to ignore Gillen's work in that regard. It had some stuff I liked, but it was such big retcons, it took me out of the story as a flashback. An AU tale about an alternate Wolverine & Creed could work. But not for previously established canon.

Yeah this "bromance" doesn't make any sense, I'm sure the next time they meet they're going to try to kill each other lol.

It's a safe bet. The only chance for contradiction is if the rumor is true about Pak doing a Sabretooth-related book. He was cheated out of about 9 chapters. Gold was the flagship & Blue x Weapon X were tied for the main team books. Senior ResurrXion titles. Gold & Blue lasted 36 issues, and Weapon X ended at 27, and was clearly very rushed. Since they allowed that book to run so long with it's supposed numbers, the X-Office must like Pak. So I could see them allowing him another maxi series to properly close some stuff out, so the rushed WX ending wasn't too big a deal -because it wasn't the complete end for the story.

But again, only if that rumor is true. Pak may be doing a book that Creed has a cameo in & the rumor exaggerated it with BC getting the wrong idea. Like how Gold & Blue were thought to be ending at issue 30, but it was really just team change-ups for a bit. Or the rumor may be a totally false troll.

But a Greg Pak book will be the only one to continue that bromance. Otherwise, most other books seem content to ignore Weapon X. Only Creed's reversion & apparently Monet's X-Factor costume will stick. Maybe Graydon will too, who knows.

And if Stryker stays dead, then bravo. That's the biggest named character Sabretooth has ever gotten to kill. Stryker has been a bigger named villain since the 80's. I'd argue he's a higher tier than Creed.

I didn't know about that, that's disappointing. At least Hickman seems to be a fan of her so that's a good thing!

Yeah. Her & Sunspot are in his top 5. So many are excited since Monet x Sunspot has become a popular pairing idea -especially from people who hate Creed and want her away from him ASAP. So some pairing fans have hopes of Hickman putting them both in a book & getting Monet with another super powerful, larger than life ego, rich, character of color.

Nothing wrong with the pairing. But since (good written) Creed is one of my favorite characters, and Sunspot isn't, I'm indifferent to it. It's like Buffy x Angel. I loved them together. But I was indifferent to her with Riley. And HATED her with Spike.

Plus Monet x Creed could use some kind of official closure before either one of them gets thrown to someone else. But I may never get that. Or worse, i'll get it but it'll be a half-assed story that demotes & mocks their Uncanny relationship,

Removing both of them did have a positive effect on Creed's characterization, not that much but still better than nothing lol.

Agreed. The book became enjoyable then. Still not good, and I didn't enjoy the super millennial voice Pak had for Creed. But immature, unorthodox but effective Creed is better than Useless, moronic Creed.

I like Claremont and I like the Exiles but his run was terrible lol, such a letdown.

The romance with Creed x Psylocke didn't win me over either. lol Idk what the heck Claremont was thinking there.

Regarding their fights during the Claremont's run, he wanted to reveal that some of those fights wasn't with the real Sabretooth but some clones when the real one was used he was terryfying especially during Uncanny X-Men #212 & #213, Wolverine #10 or Classic X-Men #10. Same thing during Wolverine #126 he was really scary but yeah unfortunately he couldn't do more in the end.

And that's a big issue. With some stuff, it needs to be established soon, otherwise subsequent writers will contradict it. It's easier to rewrite when it wasn't properly expanded on. So far as canon goes, Wolverine has always kicked Creed's ass easily. And it's the default canon now because he didn't expand on Creed being Logan's father & superior or the clone story.

Bunn did the same thing. But it's known he was bogged down by editorial's events. But he had a longer story for Sabretooth, who would try to earn his redemption & slowly fall back to villainy with it being a metaphor for Alzheimer's. But we skipped over all that development to go straight to Pak....

Bunn also said Sabretooth & Monet were in love with each other. Which is big because he'd be the first man Monet loved since Synch. And Sabretooth hasn't loved many people period. Far as we know, only 4 people prior to her -in 150 years. But because Bunn only teased & didn't expand on their relationship, that can easily be ignored in the future. They can be written as just being nothing more that co-workers. Or it can be totally ignored all together when they eventually put Creed back with Raven, pair Monet up with someone else & act as though they never interacted or had a personal connection.

The Claremont's story is set in the past just after the Kitty Pryde/Wolverine mini so if Sabretooth appears he won't have to deal with recent events lol.

If he shows up, hopefully Claremont will use the one that's supposed to be superior. Not the loser clone Logan always beat.

The fur is back lol Your comment reminds me of this scene from Ultimate X-Men #12:

Poor Creed no matter the universe, the fur coat will always be his greatest foe

Ugh! Fur! Lol Top of the line corniness.

And X-Monday previews haven't added to my optimism. Juggernaut is on a cover, surrounded by X-Men like a hero.


Sabretooth is on a cover surrounded by dogs. Even Juggernaut may be getting more character work, depth, and story than him.

[Chubistian]

I will play devil's advocate and say that I liked Sabretooth's role in UXM, in the Weapon X arc. Sure, he was made fun off a lot and had some really ridicule things (and later Millar would make him "die" with a single strike by Wolverine's, cutting his head off), but he had some cool actions moments and the last fight was lotta fun (I even stole a quote from there for my signature in this forum) with some nice art by Kubert

[comeatmebro]

Pak's run was fun, more than most X-Men books these days