The Master of Kung Fu - Shang Chi Appreciation 2019

[Blind Wedjat]

D'oh! Hoping if there are any "special" websites where could watch the series. .

Oh haha! Well I can link you to the one I usually use when I want to watch something not available in the UK here.

Very true. It's all about adding layers and personality to these characters. Again, there's nothing wrong with Kung Fu master this or schemer that, but it's a big hurdle since it is the defining trait. And that's the essential question, would an audience be willing to give Shang a chance, by overcoming the prejudices and see Shang's character? I just hope when that first trailer comes up audiences will see that Shang isn't just a martial artist, but a human. Marvel's got to really emphasize that when it starts to promote the film.

I think Marvel has always been pretty good with character. I think their Phase 1 and 2 had somewhat mixed-to-positive results, but Phase 3 has definitely seen some good work and more and more Feige is trusting the riskier choices directors and writers. I think that's why they at least got an Asian director and Chinese American writer. I think they'd both be aware they have to write a good character. I think they just should think about the right things and leave the things that work.

Shang's father has a ton of potential which has yet to be realized. I've always stated that Shang's father was a lot more powerful than people realized. There had to be a reason why someone like Apocalypse or the Hand never took over China or parts of Asia. Most definitely, I feel that these suggestions could realize that potential of how long lived and extensive his reach has been. Whether one of his identities is the Mandarin or not...I'd keep them separate. Let Shang and his father develop their unique background.

Exactly, and I think that depending on the tone of the movie like I said either infer or suggest that he is immortal (if it's more of a martial arts espionage spy political thriller) with unreliable information or full on confirm he is (if it has a bit more mystical/spiritual leanings). Either way it makes for a compelling narrative. Imagine a man so powerful and influential that he's convinced his followers and enemies he's immortal.

So, we've talked about Zheng Zu being the main villain. But who could be the main henchmen, the second in command?

Top 3 contenders for me would be Cat:

Razor Fist:

or Zaran:

Cat would be good for the hand to hand. But Razor Fist and Zaran look a lot meaner and more intimidating.

Read up on all of them a bit and while I think the "same powers/abilities/skills" thing can be seen as played out, I see Cat having the most potential. Razor Fist feels very schlocky kung-fu movie which could work if the film goes for that, but I don't see him as a second in command. Zaran has the MI6 connection but the same thing applies to him also.

Cat's look and style is very cinematic in my opinion. Depict him as a martial artist on par with Shang Chi but uses throwing and combat knives, handguns,, sniper rifles, tech gadgets, anything. Show him as a guy who just mows down MI6 agents like it's nothing and that's why they need Shang.

I also would make his rivalry with Shang a lot more personal. Something like say, Shen Kuei is jealous of Shang Chi because Zheng Zu took in Shen Kuei as a 'secret son' of sorts. No one including Shang Chi and his mother don't know of him, but Zheng Zu raised him to be an assassin/spy and he's his second in command as the top ranking Si-Fan member. So while Shang Chi is Zheng Zu's proud son, his bodyguard/head of security and/or maybe the heir to his father's business, Shen Kuei is 'evil' Zheng Zu's 'secret son' and his right hand assassin. But he is not the true heir as the leader of the Si-Fan as Zheng Zu has made it clear he will bring Shang Chi over to that side and he will take his rightful place. This creates a complex within Shen Kuei's psyche in which he thinks he's better than Shang because he's a representation of Zheng Zu's true nature while Shang represents the facade. And also, he wants to prove himself to Zheng Zu as his true son so he approaches his missions that involve Shang Chi with recklessness, ego and maybe gets increasingly insecure.

Make them true mirror images.

[MichaelC]

It really frustrates me that Shang's father is not only associated with, but the embodiment of the Yellow Peril. Strip away all of the racist overtones and one finds that Shang Chi's father is a really amazing character. He's just this crafty, devious, calculating, yet subtle villain (traits which are so appealling to a Chinese audience by the way.) He could be like a Killmonger who comes out of nowhere to become everyone's favorite character. But if everyone, Chinese audiences included, feel that Shang's father is just a racist and insulting caricature, if no villain can be Chinese because of Orientalist this and Yellow Peril that....alright, fine we'll just get some generic bad guy fro Shang to fight.

He was pretty much the star of the Fu Manchu novels, something people forget. Nobody cared about Neyland Smith. Neyland Smith was a plot-device to keep what is essentially a series about a villain-protagonist from ending because the villain wins. He's also the inspiration for just about every mastermind villain who came after him, regardless of race. Without Fu Manchu, you've got no Blofeld or Bond villains in general, no Doctor Doom, no Keyser Soze.

[qwerty3w]

Fu Manchu is supposed to be a Manchu, I think you can easily make him more Manchurian and less Pan-East Asian or Pan-Chinese, and highlight the Manchu-Han ethnic conflict to distance him from the Yellow Peril.

[The BaRoN]

Looking forward to more Shang in Atlas after seeing the Gleason promo art

After Hickman's avengers I thought we'd see more but the movie will force Marvel's hand now.

Always like Shang Chi after first reading him in a crossover with the X-Men 62 in 1996 drawn by Pacheco set in Hong Kong.

[Tien Long]

Looking forward to more Shang in Atlas after seeing the Gleason promo art

After Hickman's avengers I thought we'd see more but the movie will force Marvel's hand now.

Always like Shang Chi after first reading him in a crossover with the X-Men 62 in 1996 drawn by Pacheco set in Hong Kong.

Just wanted to hype up Shang and his recent appearance Agents of Atlas. To be honest, he only has a couple of lines here and there and pulls off maybe just one side kick. But he looked so good doing all of those things that I felt his appearance was great nonetheless. The series is highly recommended!

Oh haha! Well I can link you to the one I usually use when I want to watch something not available in the UK here.

Read up on all of them a bit and while I think the "same powers/abilities/skills" thing can be seen as played out, I see Cat having the most potential. Razor Fist feels very schlocky kung-fu movie which could work if the film goes for that, but I don't see him as a second in command. Zaran has the MI6 connection but the same thing applies to him also.

Cat's look and style is very cinematic in my opinion. Depict him as a martial artist on par with Shang Chi but uses throwing and combat knives, handguns,, sniper rifles, tech gadgets, anything. Show him as a guy who just mows down MI6 agents like it's nothing and that's why they need Shang.

I also would make his rivalry with Shang a lot more personal. Something like say, Shen Kuei is jealous of Shang Chi because Zheng Zu took in Shen Kuei as a 'secret son' of sorts. No one including Shang Chi and his mother don't know of him, but Zheng Zu raised him to be an assassin/spy and he's his second in command as the top ranking Si-Fan member. So while Shang Chi is Zheng Zu's proud son, his bodyguard/head of security and/or maybe the heir to his father's business, Shen Kuei is 'evil' Zheng Zu's 'secret son' and his right hand assassin. But he is not the true heir as the leader of the Si-Fan as Zheng Zu has made it clear he will bring Shang Chi over to that side and he will take his rightful place. This creates a complex within Shen Kuei's psyche in which he thinks he's better than Shang because he's a representation of Zheng Zu's true nature while Shang represents the facade. And also, he wants to prove himself to Zheng Zu as his true son so he approaches his missions that involve Shang Chi with recklessness, ego and maybe gets increasingly insecure.

Make them true mirror images.

Interesting thoughts. The Cat as Shang-Chi's mirror image is known, but making him the secret son isn't canon. Still, that idea streamlines a lot of storylines were Zheng Zu has had other "sons" who have fought Shang. Definitely could work.

As for Zaran and Razor Fist not being the second in command, I'll concede that. Still, they'd make great top henchmen wouldn't they? Both of them can be badasses. Still remember Shang's fight with Zaran back during the Marvel Knights series which made me a huge fan:



Just update them a bit and modernize them. Like, give Razor Fist a theater clown mask and a trench coat and he looks totally more badass.

[Tien Long]

So, just searching for some Shang-Chi news and heard some juicy rumors:

The Shang-Chi movie that is currently in development may be the next Marvel film following the release of The Avengers: Endgame and Spider-Man: Far From Home.

While Kevin Feige has yet to announce the upcoming Phase 4 slate, a big clue that Shang-Chi may be next to get released comes from the fact that Marvel recently filed thirteen trademarks for the character.

The Shang-Chi trademarks range from various commercial products to video games to figures to clothing, to toys and more.

So assuming the flick may be next, Shang-Chi would get released May 1, 2020 and need to start filming relatively soon (or at the least, it is being fast-tracked). Destin Daniel Cretton is on board as director with Chinese-American writer Dave Callaham writing the script which "will modernize the hero to avoid stereotypes that many comic characters of that era were saddled with."

Pretty cool to hear about the patents. Shang-Chi action figures? nice!. But a May 1, 2020 release date? Yeah, the film may be fast tracked, but that's way too soon for my tastes. Calling BS on it. We haven't heard of any actor yet, and just know about scouting locations. While I'm all for a Shang-Chi film, it being the kickoff of the summer movie season is a very risky move. November or February would be better.

Recent rumors claim the movie will be 70's Kung Fu meets The Matrix with a Hip Hop influence featuring all the best martial artists in the MCU centering around a possible combat tournament.

A tournament? Okay, I dig that. 70s Kung Fu meets The Matrix with hip hop? Like 70s Kung Fu Shaw Bros. stuff and hip hop, but the Matrix? Wire Fu has become passe. A tournament? Hmm, nice. Maybe we'll get to see Batroc, The Cat, Taskmaster, White Tiger, and Mr. X show up. (Daredevil and Iron Fist are probably not going to show up in this).

Again, I take all of this with a grain of salt. Still, the possibilities are intriguing.

[Digifiend]

A year from now? Surely too soon. Could be later in the year though, with Black Widow actually being next up.

[Agent Z]

So, just searching for some Shang-Chi news and heard some juicy rumors:





Pretty cool to hear about the patents. Shang-Chi action figures? nice!. But a May 1, 2020 release date? Yeah, the film may be fast tracked, but that's way too soon for my tastes. Calling BS on it. We haven't heard of any actor yet, and just know about scouting locations. While I'm all for a Shang-Chi film, it being the kickoff of the summer movie season is a very risky move. November or February would be better.



A tournament? Okay, I dig that. 70s Kung Fu meets The Matrix with hip hop? Like 70s Kung Fu Shaw Bros. stuff and hip hop, but the Matrix? Wire Fu has become passe. A tournament? Hmm, nice. Maybe we'll get to see Batroc, The Cat, Taskmaster, White Tiger, and Mr. X show up. (Daredevil and Iron Fist are probably not going to show up in this).

Again, I take all of this with a grain of salt. Still, the possibilities are intriguing.

Could you provide a link please?

[Blind Wedjat]

Interesting thoughts. The Cat as Shang-Chi's mirror image is known, but making him the secret son isn't canon. Still, that idea streamlines a lot of storylines were Zheng Zu has had other "sons" who have fought Shang. Definitely could work.

As for Zaran and Razor Fist not being the second in command, I'll concede that. Still, they'd make great top henchmen wouldn't they? Both of them can be badasses. Still remember Shang's fight with Zaran back during the Marvel Knights series which made me a huge fan:



Just update them a bit and modernize them. Like, give Razor Fist a theater clown mask and a trench coat and he looks totally more badass.

Ah to be honest I didn't know about the "other 'sons'" thing so it does fit nicely actually. It was a totally unique idea but if it fits into Zheng Zu's character then go ahead with it I say.

So, just searching for some Shang-Chi news and heard some juicy rumors:

"Recent rumors claim the movie will be 70's Kung Fu meets The Matrix with a Hip Hop influence featuring all the best martial artists in the MCU centering around a possible combat tournament."

A tournament? Okay, I dig that. 70s Kung Fu meets The Matrix with hip hop? Like 70s Kung Fu Shaw Bros. stuff and hip hop, but the Matrix? Wire Fu has become passe. A tournament? Hmm, nice. Maybe we'll get to see Batroc, The Cat, Taskmaster, White Tiger, and Mr. X show up. (Daredevil and Iron Fist are probably not going to show up in this).

Again, I take all of this with a grain of salt. Still, the possibilities are intriguing.

I hate the website that this comes from (quite unreliable, spreads clickbait rumours) but this does sound cool as ****. Completely out of the frame of what I was expecting, but if true I could see how it could work. Feige has said the MCU movies after Far from Home are all going be much different from what they've done, and my Shang Chi 'pitch' borrows heavily from The Winter Soldier and Black Panther, which I'm aware of. This sort of influence would really make it its own thing. And if they're going for a hip hop vibe too I do know the Chinese hip hop scene has quite a bit of talent.

What makes me apprehensive is the wire fu stuff and the "all the best martial artists in the MCU centering around a possible combat tournament" bit. Wire fu can work if it's used more in the vein of Kill Bill and not Crouching Tiger for instance, and if the more outrageous stuff is saved for big Jackie Chan type stunts. Also, all the best martial artists in the MCU? Wouldn't guys like Black Panther and Black Widow count? I'm not too sure if a Shang Chi movie is going to include those guys, unless the rumour means it's going to introduce new martial arts characters.

Funny, this was more in line with my idea for the sequel featuring Iron Fist and the White Tigers (yea I wanted Hector and another female one).

Could you provide a link please?

https://cosmicbook.news/shang-chi-ne...vie-spider-man

[Tien Long]

Hmmm, perhaps Shang's father will be replaced by the Mandarin? As some of you may have heard, Kevin Feige mentioned something interesting during an interview on Reddit. The article comes from here https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/05...ang-chi-movie/:

In a recent Reddit AMA session, Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige revealed that they were planning to tie up a loose end from the MCU's beginnings, by eventually debuting the *real* version of The Mandarin and his Ten Rings terrorist group in a future MCU project. Feige didn't give anymore details than that, which could mean The Mandarin has been tapped as a character to be featured in an upcoming Marvel Studios movie, or that the villain will be a larger mastermind tease for the Phase 4 story arc, and will eventually take center stage in a future MCU Crossover event.

So we know the Mandarin is coming back. And some fans have speculated (just speculated) that the Mandarin will be revealed as Shang-Chi's father. Now we've talked about this before and stated how there should be a difference between the Mandarin and Zheng Zu. Hell, I was one of those that said there should be a difference. The more I think about it though, hey, it could work. I think it could work mainly because the changes are superficial. I'm willing to bet he'll still be a long lived, nigh immortal Chinese bad guy who has been craftily manipulating events behind the scenes. The character will still be Zheng Zu, just packing the ten rings and called "The Mandarin." I'm honestly hoping that he becomes one of the main bad guys in the MCU moving forward.

In terms of comics, I think it's pretty easy for Zheng Zu to become the new Mandarin. The old Mandarin is dead, right? So Zheng Zu just finds the old Mandarin's rings, becomes the new Mandarin, and continues to want to take over the world. Easy.

Again, this is all speculation. Who knows, the Mandarin and the Ten Rings could become the latest bad guy in the Winter Soldier/Falcon series? So, as usual just playing with potential ideas here.

[MichaelC]

You can't replace The Mandarin with Fu Manchu simply by giving Fu the rings. The Mandarin has a distinctly different, far more hypermasculine personality. Quite simply, the Mandarin is a smart savage, where Fu Manchu is a true intellectual in terms of personality. It would be like trying to replace Gorilla Grodd with the Riddler just by giving Riddler Grodd's telepathic abilities.

Also, the Mandarin has mystic chi abilities apart from his rings. He basically uses chi the way Bane uses venom, amping himself to the point where he can take Iron Man's punches and destroy his armor with karate-chops. Giving Fu the rings does not give Fu the chi powers.

[PCN24454]

I don’t know why people are concerned with how realistic the martial arts could be. None of the other MCU films used realistic combat.

[Agent Z]

I don’t know why people are concerned with how realistic the martial arts could be. None of the other MCU films used realistic combat.

In fairness, those movies didn't have martial arts as a primary selling point.

You can't replace The Mandarin with Fu Manchu simply by giving Fu the rings. The Mandarin has a distinctly different, far more hypermasculine personality. Quite simply, the Mandarin is a smart savage, where Fu Manchu is a true intellectual in terms of personality. It would be like trying to replace Gorilla Grodd with the Riddler just by giving Riddler Grodd's telepathic abilities.

Also, the Mandarin has mystic chi abilities apart from his rings. He basically uses chi the way Bane uses venom, amping himself to the point where he can take Iron Man's punches and destroy his armor with karate-chops. Giving Fu the rings does not give Fu the chi powers.

Well it wouldn't be the first time the MCU made changes to the source material.

I'm honestly surprised they're actually bringing back the Mandarin plot. "Hail to the King" only seemed to serve as a way to placate people upset over the Mandarin twist in IM3.

[Blind Wedjat]

I don’t know why people are concerned with how realistic the martial arts could be. None of the other MCU films used realistic combat.

Yes, and characters like Cap, T'Challa and Bucky got away with it by being superpowered. Hell Cap is borderline OP in the films, since he can kick armoured trucks, pull down helicopters and fight a guy that wiped the floor with the Hulk (to be fair he did use Mjolnir, but still). Same with Bucky who is on Cap's level and T'Challa that can wrestle down abnormally huge charging rhinos and can throw truck doors like soda cans.

Shang Chi can hang with those guys in the comics because they're even more inconsistent than movies (strength and speed is a lot easier to visualise on film too) and weird chi stuff but he should only be able to pull of what those guys do if he's got some serious powers going for him. And as someone mentioned Shang Chi is primarly a martial artist far more than those guys--they "use" it but he is it. Cap is a supersoldier, Bucky a super assassin and T'Challa a spiritual warrior king. Shang is a 'regular' guy.

The whole thing is just that kung fu as a whole is controversial today in terms of actual combat prowess compared to modern styles of fighting, and it's relevance and usefulness has been called into question for a whole bunch of reasons (some good and some bad). I just think should modernise his style a bit. Don't make it so chopsocky and unrealistic. I'd like a bit of that flare of course and I wouldn't want the action scenes to be hyper-realistic, but I don't see why he has to be restricted to just kung fu. Thrown in some Jeet Kune Do (Jun Fan), Sanshou (Chinese kickboxing used by the military), Muay Thai, Capoeira, Taekwondo, Escrima and Krav Maga alongside the more traditional stuff like Wing Chun, Xing Yi Quan and Baguazhang.

I also think it'll help if they establish him more as a spy/James Bond type that uses some tech gear like the taser nunchucks and anything else they could come up with, similarly to Black Widow for instance.

[Draegwolf]

Am I the only one that thinks it would have made more sense for Shang Chi to be leading the Agents of Atlas in War of Realms instead of Brawn? I mean yes Amadeus Cho is intelligent but Shang is more experienced and generally less disruptive. Given that a good chunk of the characters promoted on this team seem to be between their late 20's to early 40's does it really make sense to have a kid leading them regardless of how intelligent he may or may not be?